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Old 01-19-2023, 08:58 PM
geelhoed geelhoed is offline
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Default Dedicated shrinker

I’m thinking about building a dedicated thumbnail shrinker. Wondering if I should build a small reciprocating machine or sprung helve type machine. I use Stan Fulton thumbnails in my larger recip machine but am tired of swapping them in and out. I want to have a machine set up ready to go anytime with around 8 inch throat depth. What do you think would be the best to build?
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Last edited by geelhoed; 01-22-2023 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 01-19-2023, 09:41 PM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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I'm aware of 20 or 30 builds of the group design dedicated thumbnail machines. I have the prototype. It works exactly as intended. I even have a few of the eccentrics in my toolbox.

Everything you need to know in in the sticky posts in the reciprocating machine forum.
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Old 01-19-2023, 11:38 PM
geelhoed geelhoed is offline
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I’m very familiar with the group builds and other one offs that have been built. They all influenced me when I built my recip machines. What I’m wondering is if there is an advantage to the “sprung “ hit provided by a helve or toggle style instead of the solid hit of the eccentric .
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Old 01-20-2023, 07:39 PM
BTromblay BTromblay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geelhoed View Post
I’m very familiar with the group builds and other one offs that have been built. They all influenced me when I built my recip machines. What I’m wondering is if there is an advantage to the “sprung “ hit provided by a helve or toggle style instead of the solid hit of the eccentric .
Hi,

I think there is an advantage to a sprung hit, verse the fixed stoke of a Pullmax style machine. With the spring in the circuit it is easier to shrink and have it build material thickness, instead of the same stroke length and having it push the material out the backside of the panel if it makes sense. With my power hammer up and running, I don't use my Pullman at all anymore for shrinking.

B
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Old 01-21-2023, 12:25 AM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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All hammers HIT! Reciprocating machines PUSH. Different processes. At an internal level things happen differently to end up at the same place. The following is my opinion. Each of us has one. Mine is no better than anyone else's.

The advantages of Reciprocating machines are cost, size, noise and skill required to master. They are extremely versatile and can do finesse manipulation like beads and wire edges as well as shrinking and stretching. They can be purchased or built reasonably. Much tooling can be shop built and does not ALWAYS require hardened tool steel.

Hammers, of any type, are noisy, typically but not always, large, and require considerable skill to master. In skilled hands, traditional Yoders, Pettingills, Quickworks and clones can shrink, stretch, and planish even difficult materials with amazing speed and quality. That said, they are LOUD, take years to master and are very expensive. Tooling is almost always hardened tool steel and expensive. Yes, shop made hammers of various types have built that don't follow the above.

Btw, an Anoka Power Hammer (now Dake) is not, in any definition, a hammer. It is a reciprocating machine. Period, full stop.

I'll add that while this sounds like I'm anti hammer, I'm not. I owned a VERY well tooled Metalcraft power hammer personally built by Cal Davis. I decided I was too old to have any reasonable expection of mastering it and sold it. I never made a single panel that I considered good enough to use. The sale price was about half the cost of my KF460 Eckold. The first panel I made with it is part of my roadster today. I have NEVER had to scrap a panel made on the Eckolds. I've made some scrap when I was experimenting or goofing around but not when I was doing real work. Yeah they are scarce and not cheap but compared to a real power hammer, they are about the same.

There are lots of ways to shape the panel. We should each choose the ones that SPEAK to our minds, skills, and wallet.
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Old 01-21-2023, 04:42 AM
steve.murphy steve.murphy is offline
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https://www.allmetalshaping.com/show...?t=1115&page=2

I made this shrinker with about the same criteria as you.
One thing I found was that a reciprocating machine needs to be more rigid than a hammer machine. On the finished picture you can see I added some tension straps to address flexing of the frame. The machine worked much better afterwards. It barely shrinked before the straps were added.

You’ve probably seen Sosa Metalshaping shapeomatic machine? It’s a helve type combo machine that’s been getting some good reviews. It’s can shrink and stretch.
https://www.sosametalworks.com/machines
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Last edited by steve.murphy; 01-21-2023 at 04:46 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 01-21-2023, 05:31 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Quote:
I'll add that while this sounds like I'm anti hammer, I'm not. I owned a VERY well tooled Metalcraft personally built by Cal Davis. I decided I was too old to have any reasonable expection of mastering it and sold it. I never made a single panel that I considered good enough to use. The sale price was about half the cost of my KF460 Eckold. The first panel I made with it is part of my roadster today. I have NEVER had to scrap a panel made on the Eckolds. I've made some scrap when I was experimenting or goofing around but not when I was doing real work. Yeah they are scarce and not cheap but compared to a real power hammer, they are about the same.

There are lots of ways to shape the panel. We should each choose the ones that SPEAK to our minds, skills, and wallet.

Kerry, totally agree.

I sign the last paragraph about the fact that - availability of the machine to everyone according to their capabilities.
I will add one note. Workshop equipment is greatly underestimated. A lot of experts think that they will buy or build a cheap and limited functional machine.... what kind of colleague has he seen it with and it does a great job. But be careful, that colleague is experienced, he has muscles on his right hand like iron and he uses the machine as much as possible to smooth the surface.
Many beginners want to use these simple machines for shaping and it is not going so well.
I've pointed out the rubber molding here many times - the hockey puck - I see it on the site for $150....that made me laugh. You have expensive pucks there. NHL ???
Just the puck works great and can start a good journey in the beginning.

The big problem is fiber shrinkage. Eckold has solved it in a technically comprehensible and even more comprehensible in his price. With the economy, everyone is looking for an alternate route. There aren't many of them.

From what I can see, the scariest tool is the "American Tooth". I have expressed myself several times in the past. You don't have to beat me...

So if a beginner goes down the path of imitating alternative solutions, he will soon find out how hard work it is. I recommend studying more theories in different directions and watching videos only that show the finished product. Most of the time, the plate will only move, but you will never see the result.

I experienced a situation where I had a fully equipped Eckold in my workshop, that is, nothing was preventing me from working, but I found out that I could not use it in such a way as to finish the product to size. So I had the best at my disposal, but I only knew the theory and the basic bends leading nowhere. I experienced very unpleasant moments.

Therefore, I remind you that it is very good to evaluate what I want and what I need it for. Not to be led astray by showing wrong ways. And most importantly, keep trying and think a lot and a lot about your steps and follow the material.

Good luck.
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Old 01-22-2023, 08:09 PM
geelhoed geelhoed is offline
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Thanks for the wise words. I have been thumbnail shrinking for years on a reciprocating machine with good success. Just feel like the “hammering effect “ has more potential. My arms can’t pound out tucks anymore but when I do I feel the shrinking potential of a good “hit” I just wonder if I can build a machine like a mini helve to achieve the same result. The Sosa machine is the closest thing I’ve seen so far.
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Last edited by geelhoed; 01-22-2023 at 08:54 PM.
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