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Old 04-14-2022, 06:09 PM
scrapmetalman scrapmetalman is offline
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Default Existential questions from a self taugh newcomer

hello guys, thanks for the welcome.

i've an half wheel arch patch to do. at the bottom on the last inches ( or cm ) there is a radius change.

i've done five times these panels with fails.

i think my mistake at each time is to only shrink at one side, check the shape with my buck at the other, then pass it to the english wheel but it still lose my shape.

so with my DIY e-wheel ( i have only an hard radius maybe a flat anvil is needed ), i think about , on the side that meet the other half of the arch, stretch the lines and at other side shrink them.

as a newbie i can't catch why peter tomasini shrink the upper side and wrey schelin shtrink the bottom.



am i clear ?



Best regards from france.
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Old 04-14-2022, 06:16 PM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
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Did you consider "wheeling" it to the larger radius throughout the arch and adjust to the tighter radius by hand?


Or try Jaroslav's approach of smaller upper wheel (converted barbell weight) and lower urethane wheel?
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Old 04-14-2022, 06:22 PM
scrapmetalman scrapmetalman is offline
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none of both. i don't even know the second. i notice i can't shape on the two axis once is partially done.


PS : as a barbarian newcomer i shrink with a handmade tucking form. the clamp the piece at the both sides of tuck and hammer it from deep to edge. i don't know how to judge the importance if tuck deep ( i go to the half on the panel ).
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Last edited by scrapmetalman; 04-14-2022 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 04-14-2022, 06:36 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is online now
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Mathieu. Please take a picture. Describe what your goal is. I can't understand it in translation.
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Old 04-15-2022, 05:58 AM
scrapmetalman scrapmetalman is offline
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ok thank you, here the plan, the confession ( maybe you'll laugh )




there is two bucks for the two axis of the patch :






as you can see there is a radius change on the bottom. the other axe is a perfect quart of circle.




i roll the buck for a mark of each flat zone between a radius change ( same technique for doing corner ).








then i do a tuck of the each line and compress it :








here's when it beguns to be fucked up. i try to have my radius at the other side of the panel. it never works.




Here the procedure and the weirdt english whell that i made myself :






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Old 04-15-2022, 07:13 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is online now
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Mathieu.

Ok, I'm trying to understand.

You are too far. You've gone beyond some of the steps you'll need to take. I'll try to help you with the process.

1. Create from cardboard (you will find at the waste container), a spatial template (ribs) of what you want to do. Hot melt glue and tape.
2. Cover the three-dimensional template with paper and tape to create the shape which is attached to the template.
3. Remove the tape paper from the stencil and place it on the table.
4. Cut the created shape so that it lies on the table.
5. Look at the cut paper and see where the material is needed
shorten and where lengthen the fibers.
6. It is better to lengthen or arch the material than to shorten it.
7. The material must always be soft. The blows must be in a soft surface. If you make a spring from a material, there is nothing to shape.

Your EW looks good. I don't know how they have a rigid frame. The EW frame must always be rigid. I repaired the frame of my welded first wheels very easily, I used a clamping strap for about 4t and I tightened (pre-tensioned) the frame with a strap. Then I welded two profiles
as reinforcement. EWs are working as needed after this fix.
The best thoughts come 100 years in advance or a few seconds after.

Take a look at some of my threads. I describe the paper templates there clearly. It is the absolute basis of this craft. And many thoughts. The hammer is just like the last tool.

You can use the method I used in this thread. But once you know the shape you need to make.
If you arch a shape, calmly continue shaping until the whole twists together. Then you put straighten it on the table and the edges close themselves. Try it.
https://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=19643
So I hope my thoughts help you. Good luck.
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Old 04-15-2022, 11:42 AM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Regarding the approach.

There are 3 ways to make any panel.

1- Pure Stretch. All hammer and wheel work to stretch and smooth the metal

2- Pure Shrink. Shrink using a variety of methods from a concave stump, tucking forks, or mechanical shrinker. Smooth with a hammer and dolly or an Ewheel. Note. For the MOST part, the Ewheel is a stretching machine. Smoothing is stretching.

3- Combination of shrink and stretch. This is the most common approach.

To better understand tuck shrinking look at this video my son did some years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkaCJ5gC3jI

If you search for tuck shrinking you'll find lots of youtube videos.

The same is true of stump shrinking. Here is a good link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJVaHEJxDH8

As far as top or bottom goes, the metal has to go where it needs to go to become the desired shape. If the part is symmetrical then it doesn't matter.
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Old 04-15-2022, 06:07 PM
scrapmetalman scrapmetalman is offline
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guys i've just seen your answers thank you.



before i seen the idea of complete bucks i've try something. i've make a line in the center of the panel. the left section is stretched ( i've tried to do beads with my bead roller and erase them, works good ). the other section is shrinked through a tucking fork and hammer.



it's better but still failed.


i'll listen you all, try a buck and hammering it, then planishing with manual hammer ( each time it's fucked up at the e-wheel ).



at 52.15 peter seems have way to go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp1RPax-FOc


best regards
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Old 04-22-2022, 05:43 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapmetalman View Post

( i've tried to do beads with my bead roller and erase them, works good ).


i'll listen you all, try a buck and hammering it, then planishing with manual hammer ( each time it's fucked up at the e-wheel ).


best regards
Yes, tucking it up and then rolling with the wheel is good.
Also working on the buck is when you get the metal all bucked up.
Buck up your tucks. The wheel will capture the metal so it will be all tucked up so it can go onto the buck.
Don't pass the buck. Focus on the tuck.
Adieu,
C'est Bon,
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Old 04-24-2022, 12:23 PM
ojh ojh is offline
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Are you wheeling with the radius or across it?
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