All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > General Discussion
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-28-2019, 03:39 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
MetalShaper of the Month January 2020, March 2022
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,700
Default Bead Roller or Reciprocating Machine?

I'm looking for opinions and thought this would fit better here in discussion than in either specific area below.

I've been collecting materials, mostly towards a bead roller build. I have no lathe or mill and have no room for either/both if I was to pursue them. I have no experience of consequence with either bead roller or pullmax/reciprocating machines.

What I do have-

Three pieces of 1" steel plate. Two identical semicircular pieces measuring 36" long along the straight edge plus one piece measuring 6" x approx 12". Arranged as shown and welded, this would produce a 1" thick frame with a min 24" long x 6" tall throat. some material could obviously be removed on top and bottom- it's really heavy...



I have one of Peter's English Wheels with a 27 1/2" throat, so it would be a good depth. I also have a old typeface SuperSurfacer with a cast iron pedestal (& motor mount, if appropriate) to hopefully use for whatever I build.



As a bead roller, I planning to build one of standard throat height now within this larger frame. use a riser to position the lower roller shaft higher in the 6" tall throat. Whether or not it later becomes a deep throat bead roller, I'll have the frame to do so. I've got a treadmill motor, some other 1 phase & 3 phase motors, sprockets, etc.

Right now, I'm planning to bolt the various components to this frame so it can be converted later if practical. Buying bead roller mandrel sets will be an obvious expense, whether purchased or bought with a cheap beadroller kit.

But- as I read & learn more about equipment, it sounds like a reciprocating machine would do the same work as a bead roller plus more. What I don't understand is how or if a frame of this dimension and configuration would work as a mini pullmax.

1. Is a frame of these dimensions (1" thick with 24" x 6" throat) likely strong & rigid enough to resist flex and/or deflection as a reciprocating machine?

2. What about the throat dimensions? Most factory built Pullmax machines have a longer horizontal throat, but a lot of homebuilt projects like the ShopDog seem to have a more vertical throat. I could make it with the 6" x 12" piece welded on the short sides for a taller throat but expect it will not be as strong/stable unless additional bracing is added(?)

3.I also am not sure about the balance of such machines when mounted upon a single pedestal. Would it be better to plan for a different base if I go towards a reciprocating machine?

4. if this frame is likely a poor approach to a reciprocating machine, I would like to know. I'll just keep working towards a bead roller.

Any input is appreciated. TIA
__________________
AC Button II
http://CarolinaSculptureStudio.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-28-2019, 05:05 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
MetalShaper of the Month April 2020, September 2021
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 1,881
Default

If you're building something like a bead roller. Think a lot about what "something" you create, you want to use. I have found that this fender adornment on a conventional bead roller can not be done. It interferes with the shafts. My next construction will be without shafts.

The stand is beautiful.

Buying a lathe will help a lot.

DSC09244.jpg

DSC09243.jpg
__________________
Jaroslav
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-27-2019, 12:49 PM
memphisrain memphisrain is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Plainwell, MI
Posts: 80
Default

Hey Cliff, hope you're doing well.

Personally, if you have the option, I'd go with a reciprocating machine build. Because the bead roller pulls metal to create it's shape, you either have to pre-stretch the area where the bead will be, or futz with the panel after you put the bead in to fix/straighten other areas of the panel due to the material pulled for the bead.

I don't do this everyday, but I generally struggle with getting the right amount of pre-stretch to keep a panel flat after the beads are in it. This, along with wanting to do some bead details on 3D shapes such as a motorcycle tanks has me wanting to build/buy a reciprocating machine. Not to mention the other advantages as being able to build shinking dies, using it to shear, etc, which you mentioned. I've also thought about building a setup for my E-wheel similar to Jaroslav shows to be able to do something similar to his pictures, but if I"m going to all that trouble, probably wouldn't be much more work to put together a small reciprocation machine.

With that said, have you considered the power hammer attachment that Peter is offering for those wheels now? I'd imagine you'd be able to come up with some beading dies similar to what Ben is doing with the Mechhammer. May be Kent might chime in.
__________________
Big Jake

"I've never met someone with so much tenacity in all my life." - RockHillWill

@madscientistind

Last edited by memphisrain; 03-27-2019 at 12:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-27-2019, 04:25 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
MetalShaper of the Month January 2020, March 2022
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,700
Default

Thanks for your perspective, Jake. Given a free choice, a reciprocating machine is probably my preference. The details of making that happen are the current challenge. Peter's accessories for his cast wheel frame are one option. So is Kent's planishing hammer.

Right now, I have no idea about prices but either one fits my budget the exact same way..... guess I should add one of those laughing emoticon smiley face things here, but I just can't stand those things.
__________________
AC Button II
http://CarolinaSculptureStudio.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-28-2019, 03:27 AM
neilb's Avatar
neilb neilb is offline
MetalShaper of the Month March 2019
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne OZ
Posts: 672
Default

hi cliff, my reciprocating machine build cost me $500 all new parts inc the motor, has a large enough throat for what i need. my lower arm is adjustable in + out via a small hand wheel on the side at the rear. an adjustable lower tool holder vertically. works great for deep shrinking with the thumbnail dies. i made some dies + made my engine lid frame with this machine. having said all that i am in the middle of upgrading bead roller lol, just because they are handy to have
__________________
Neil
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-07-2019, 08:10 AM
idickers's Avatar
idickers idickers is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 203
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilb View Post
hi cliff, my reciprocating machine build cost me $500 all new parts inc the motor, has a large enough throat for what i need. my lower arm is adjustable in + out via a small hand wheel on the side at the rear. an adjustable lower tool holder vertically. works great for deep shrinking with the thumbnail dies. i made some dies + made my engine lid frame with this machine. having said all that i am in the middle of upgrading bead roller lol, just because they are handy to have
Any pics or writeup of your $500 reciprocating machine?
__________________
Ian in Rochester, NY
M2 site
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-07-2019, 10:15 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
MetalShaper of the Month January 2020, March 2022
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,700
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilb View Post
hi cliff, my reciprocating machine build cost me $500 all new parts inc the motor, has a large enough throat for what i need. my lower arm is adjustable in + out via a small hand wheel on the side at the rear. an adjustable lower tool holder vertically. works great for deep shrinking with the thumbnail dies. i made some dies + made my engine lid frame with this machine. having said all that i am in the middle of upgrading bead roller lol, just because they are handy to have
I was looking for a build thread or maybe must some pics as well, Neil. Thought there was one, but either I can't find it or was confusing your machine with someone else's. Even a quick pic or two would be great.
__________________
AC Button II
http://CarolinaSculptureStudio.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-07-2019, 03:11 PM
skintkarter skintkarter is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Nov. 2018, Jan. 2021
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 834
Default

AC, I'm on the verge of building a reciprocating machine also and did some research on the site last night. Neil's no machining build is at http://allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=17938
__________________
Richard
"I know nothing. I from Barcelona" (Manuel - Fawlty Towers)
Link to our racecar project https://www.facebook.com/pages/Elan-...ab=public&view
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-07-2019, 07:13 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
MetalShaper of the Month January 2020, March 2022
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 2,700
Default

Thanks, Richard- thought for certain that Neil posted a thread. His crankshaft fab/workaround stuck in my mind, but that's apparently all that did..... I looked a bunch and didn't find it. Glad to know I wasn't just imagining it all. I've been camping & offline for a week, just got back yesterday so this is great to have.

Now I've just got to keep plodding forward.
__________________
AC Button II
http://CarolinaSculptureStudio.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-08-2019, 04:14 AM
neilb's Avatar
neilb neilb is offline
MetalShaper of the Month March 2019
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne OZ
Posts: 672
Default

thanks richard, i knew i put one somewhere lol,

i have altered the drive shaft from the motor since then, i moved the end bearing block to just after the motor. then installed another shaft with a hole drilled off centre, tapped and a 10mm bolt and threaded it through the upper bearing of the conrod. if you want any pics let me know.
__________________
Neil
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:08 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.