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  #1  
Old 05-31-2022, 09:03 PM
sandmanred sandmanred is offline
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Default Assembly of 3003 and 6061 and filler rod choices

I plan to have few components of 6061 plate in a fender assembly of 3003 sheet. I'll be using 1100 filler on the 3003-3003 seams and 5356 filler on the 3003 to 6061 seams. There will likely be some 3003-3003 seams that lap on to the 6061. Any concerns about areas where the 5356 filler and 1100 filler come together?

Thanks in advance for any insights!
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2022, 09:52 PM
Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
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I would use 4043 wire on the 6061. I use 1100 on 3003 but 4043 will work also. Harder grainier weld but will work on both alloys. I do not suggest the 5356 wire.
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Old 05-31-2022, 10:42 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by sandmanred View Post
I plan to have few components of 6061 plate in a fender assembly of 3003 sheet. I'll be using 1100 filler on the 3003-3003 seams and 5356 filler on the 3003 to 6061 seams. There will likely be some 3003-3003 seams that lap on to the 6061. Any concerns about areas where the 5356 filler and 1100 filler come together?

Thanks in advance for any insights!
Hi Red,
From the Aluminum Association recommendations in their book ("Welding Aluminum, Theory and Practice") the filler chart shows that you are correct when joining 3003-3003 with 1100 filler.
And when joining 6061 to itself and also to 3003 with 5356.

My own experience also confirms this - although I often hammer the welds to planish them, and also to bring hardness/strength back up.

"Weld dilution" allows the filler to mix more fully with the surrounding parent metals during welding. This allows strength and flexibility through the weld seams/joints. As such, the 1100 filler mixing with the 5356 filler should give zero problems.

Sometimes weld seam coloration is important - as on bare surfaces. These fillers, both 1100 and 5356 give good color similarity, with the 1100 being a little "whiter."

On old race car fuel tanks the tank bodies are usually 3003, and the fittings/bungs are 6061. They are universally welded with either 1100 or 5356.

On the other hand, 4043 has been a traditional American filler choice for almost all aluminum alloys. I can remember being in welding supply shops dozens upon dozens of times, across the USA, and overhear a customer asking "what filler for welding aluminum?" And the counter guy always replies, "4043." ----- However, specific to the Aluminum Association's aluminum welding filler charts, 4043 was designed as a low solidus filler, for welding aluminum castings. This allows for a pre-heated aluminum casting to be welded hot, and the low solidus filler designed to solidify first, with the surrounding parent metal then hardening after that point, when cooled down 10F or so degrees. This "low solidus" feature helps prevent post-weld cracking. Silicon is the key element that enables this. However, it also adds brittleness, which shows up when cold working (hammering or rolling) these "low solidus" welds.

Anodizing success is specific to filler metal choice, also.
Chrysler Motors Corp. gave up making forged aluminum bumpers on their autos in the late 1970's because re-anodizing any weld-repaired areas was a dismal failure, given the near-universal application of the "most ubiquitous aluminum filler metal" in America, at that time.

Let me know how you do on this project, Red. I expect primo success for you!
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Last edited by crystallographic; 05-31-2022 at 10:46 PM.
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2022, 06:51 AM
sandmanred sandmanred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Hi Red,
From the Aluminum Association recommendations in their book ("Welding Aluminum, Theory and Practice") the filler chart shows that you are correct when joining 3003-3003 with 1100 filler.
And when joining 6061 to itself and also to 3003 with 5356.

My own experience also confirms this - although I often hammer the welds to planish them, and also to bring hardness/strength back up.

"Weld dilution" allows the filler to mix more fully with the surrounding parent metals during welding. This allows strength and flexibility through the weld seams/joints. As such, the 1100 filler mixing with the 5356 filler should give zero problems.

Sometimes weld seam coloration is important - as on bare surfaces. These fillers, both 1100 and 5356 give good color similarity, with the 1100 being a little "whiter."

On old race car fuel tanks the tank bodies are usually 3003, and the fittings/bungs are 6061. They are universally welded with either 1100 or 5356.

On the other hand, 4043 has been a traditional American filler choice for almost all aluminum alloys. I can remember being in welding supply shops dozens upon dozens of times, across the USA, and overhear a customer asking "what filler for welding aluminum?" And the counter guy always replies, "4043." ----- However, specific to the Aluminum Association's aluminum welding filler charts, 4043 was designed as a low solidus filler, for welding aluminum castings. This allows for a pre-heated aluminum casting to be welded hot, and the low solidus filler designed to solidify first, with the surrounding parent metal then hardening after that point, when cooled down 10F or so degrees. This "low solidus" feature helps prevent post-weld cracking. Silicon is the key element that enables this. However, it also adds brittleness, which shows up when cold working (hammering or rolling) these "low solidus" welds.

Anodizing success is specific to filler metal choice, also.
Chrysler Motors Corp. gave up making forged aluminum bumpers on their autos in the late 1970's because re-anodizing any weld-repaired areas was a dismal failure, given the near-universal application of the "most ubiquitous aluminum filler metal" in America, at that time.

Let me know how you do on this project, Red. I expect primo success for you!
Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. This may be my first attempt using 3003 panels (I have 5052 on hand but may purchase 3003 instead). I've been using 5052 because it's so much cheaper and easier to get. But I just got a small sample of 3003 and some 1100 filler to practice on. What a difference! So much easier to shape. It's seems easier to move at H14 than the 5052 is annealed.

And FWIW I've had the same experience with 4043, the welds crack all to pieces during planishing.
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  #5  
Old 06-04-2022, 10:10 AM
Paul New Paul New is offline
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Not to hijack but what rod would you use if your not sure if the tank is built from 5052 or 3003 I need to add an extension to a tank Iím going to use 3003?
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  #6  
Old 06-05-2022, 01:51 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Not to hijack but what rod would you use if your not sure if the tank is built from 5052 or 3003 I need to add an extension to a tank Iím going to use 3003?
alloy 5356 filler

... coloration of the 5052 surface has a gray cast .... becoming darker gray with long exposure to ocean airs/seawaters. A keen eye and good light can detect a slight side-by-side color difference, 3003/5052, fresh samples. Don't abrade the tank surface, just soft-wipe with 99%isopropyl, and lay on a small blank of 3003, light on and inspect.

2024 - slight green/blue
1100 - whitest of all alu alloys
-ends
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Last edited by crystallographic; 06-05-2022 at 01:55 PM.
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  #7  
Old 06-07-2022, 03:32 PM
Paul New Paul New is offline
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Thank you Kent appreciate the information
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2022, 09:47 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Thank you Kent appreciate the information
You are welcome, Paul.
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  #9  
Old 06-09-2022, 09:15 AM
sandmanred sandmanred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul New View Post
Not to hijack but what rod would you use if your not sure if the tank is built from 5052 or 3003 I need to add an extension to a tank Iím going to use 3003?
I think most custom builders use 3003 or even 1100 for shaped tanks, in the case of either of those I'd use 1100 filler. Doubtful it's 5052 but if it were I'd use 5356.

These aren't just my opinions. The attached file provides guidance on filler selection based on alloys in the weld desired weld properties. I have it printed out for easy reading, it's kind of an eye chart but has tons of good info in it.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Aluminum_Filler_Metal_Selection_Chart.pdf (152.2 KB, 21 views)
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  #10  
Old 06-09-2022, 03:18 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Default welding 5052 to 3003/1100, filler opinions via Aluminum Association

Another opinion - from the Aluminum Association:

Welding 5052 to 3003/1100, fillers used, first choice to last:

5183
5356
5556
last - 4043 - has good hot-cracking resistance, but cracks when planished ...
Recommended for sustained temperatures above 150F due to
intergranular corrosion.
- end -
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