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  #1  
Old 06-06-2016, 09:40 PM
BTromblay BTromblay is offline
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Default Bead roller wire edge dies

Hi,

Can anyone recommend bead rolling dies for a wire edge? I currently use the method shown by Lazze on you tube, but I don't like how it finishes. I know Mittler Bros have a set of dies they offer, but do they work well?

I work in thin, soft aluminum (.040" 5052 or 3003) so closing the edge with a hammer and dolly marks the surface. Using modified pliers to hold the wire or close the edge leaves marks as well.

Any recommendations?

Thanks, Bill
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2016, 12:51 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by BTromblay View Post
Hi,

Can anyone recommend bead rolling dies for a wire edge? I currently use the method shown by Lazze on you tube, but I don't like how it finishes. I know Mittler Bros have a set of dies they offer, but do they work well?

I work in thin, soft aluminum (.040" 5052 or 3003) so closing the edge with a hammer and dolly marks the surface. Using modified pliers to hold the wire or close the edge leaves marks as well.

Any recommendations?

Thanks, Bill
I don't know what to recommend, specifically. I do know that the aluminum guys use different tools and methods from the steel guys ...

All the aluminum race cars I restored over the years had wired edges and the bodies were .040 3003. I did not see any bead roller marks on them, or claw marks from grip clamps. Or hammer whaps. Very clean work should be routine, as Dick Troutman showed me and indicated was standard. As did Peter Miles, who worked for Dick for 13 years, before he came to work for me, at Dick's recommendation.

I made up a dead blow cross-peen plastic hammer many years ago to wire edges on aluminum panels. I like it. It shrinks on outside curves and it can stretch on the inside. I use aluminum scraps under my one pair of V grips that I use and i use a scatter shield against the inside of the panel when shutting the flange around the wire. No marks when done. Clean work. A student friend of mine is building up a bare aluminum GT40 right now - no marks on the wired edges, as of today's report. One very happy craftsman.

I also made up some flange turning dies for my APH 20 years ago, so those don't leave tracks, either.

I worked with a guy many years ago, Bob Davids. He was the Nat'l winner of the Fisher Body comp through the high schools in '63, and went on to graduate from Art Center, worked with Breedlove on the salt, and then at GM, Revelle, etc etc. He told me that the top salt guys wired all the wheelarches on the cars with hammer and dolly - no marks. So, I never used the Jenny for that, even though Harry Morrow was insistent that I should - he trained at Rolls Royce. Different methods, different training, same aluminum. I tend to go with what works for me, though I do try the other stuff to see, first hand.

I don't like the marks from the bead roller so I don't use it to wire my aluminum edges. -- But I do use the crimper rolls in my old bead roller to crinkle down airplane nosebowl edges, when needed.
..... and to neck down black stovepipe ....
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  #3  
Old 06-07-2016, 01:09 AM
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Frank.de.Kleuver Frank.de.Kleuver is offline
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Hi Kent,

What do you mean with a 'scatter shield'?

If one wire edges with only hammer and dolly, is the first bending line to 'brake' the material put in with a jenny or also with hammer and dolly? I found the last method hard to get it right all the time.

Kind regards,

Frank
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:24 AM
RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
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Kent: "I made up a dead blow cross-peen plastic hammer many years ago to wire edges on aluminum panels."

Can you show us a photo? I purchased a dead blow 'plastic' hammer for this purpose, and wonder how close in design it is to yours.
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:30 PM
BTromblay BTromblay is offline
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Hi,

I'm making new cowlings for a DH-82A Tiger Moth. From what I can see on the original cowl pieces, there are no tool marks. So far, when I try, I get marking when I try to close the edge. If you could show pictures of your hammer, it might solve my problem.

Thanks,

Bill
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Old 06-08-2016, 05:46 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTromblay View Post
Hi,

I'm making new cowlings for a DH-82A Tiger Moth. From what I can see on the original cowl pieces, there are no tool marks. So far, when I try, I get marking when I try to close the edge. If you could show pictures of your hammer, it might solve my problem.

Thanks,

Bill
Hi Bill,

The hammers are 1.75 dia x 6" long, and weigh 1lb. Available in horiz. and vert. cross pein. Dead blow. Design by us, going back 15 years, specifically for working aluminum sheet.
P1010098 TMTECH.jpg
http://www.tinmantech.com/html/special-hammers.php

Student hammers, for use during our trainings. (Apprentices can be hard on tools... but these seem to hold up)
P1010092 TMTECH.jpg

I sanded one handle for myself, octagonal, so my big paws can get onto it.

I use this hammer with our double-wall small hand-size shot bag also for shrinking 2024. I call this bag I designed a "variable-hardness dolly."
http://www.tinmantech.com/html/canvas_bag_flame.php

If you see Steve Dawson (lives at the end of a taxiway on the airstrip in E. Troy, W169) please give him my best ...
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Last edited by crystallographic; 06-08-2016 at 05:52 PM.
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  #7  
Old 06-08-2016, 05:55 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHillWill View Post
Kent: "I made up a dead blow cross-peen plastic hammer many years ago to wire edges on aluminum panels."

Can you show us a photo? I purchased a dead blow 'plastic' hammer for this purpose, and wonder how close in design it is to yours.
Will,
here they are - let me know if yours is a forgery .... ?
P1010092 TMTECH.jpg
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  #8  
Old 06-08-2016, 08:42 PM
BTromblay BTromblay is offline
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Hi,
Thanks for the photos of the hammer. I think I will use my tipping wheel on the bead roller to get the edge started, the finish with a hammer.

I have several pictures of the part in question. I have the shape in the part, getting ready for the bend and some trimming.

Steve Dawson is one airport over from me, he is at East Troy Air Estate and I'm at East Troy Airport (57C). I looked at a exhaust collector ring, he was making for a Lycoming on a Stearman several years ago, will tell him hi☺.

Thanks,
B
20160608_185744.jpg

20160608_185807.jpg

20160608_185800.jpg
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  #9  
Old 06-09-2016, 10:59 AM
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Steve_Greenway Steve_Greenway is offline
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Bill,

I have a set of the Mittler dies and I can't say that I'm thrilled with them. I have not used them much though, maybe there is a learning curve and I'm not using them correctly. I have not tried them on thin aluminum either. If you ever get over to the NW part of the state (Cumberland) you are welcome to stop by and try them out.
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Old 06-22-2016, 06:37 AM
metalman sweden metalman sweden is offline
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Bill, try to machine dies out of plastic for your bead roller, it can be done easy with just a drill press and a couple of files.
I make all my toolings of plastic, doesnt matter if it for handtools, pullmax or beadroller.
Works great for steel aswell.

Save tons of clean up work.
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