Texas Repoussé

Mavigogun · #1 03-10-2022, 04:57 PM

I’m a Houston resident with some mild welding and fab skills aiming to customize my motorcycles with aluminum fairings. I’ve done some raising and forming in years past; the garage is littered with chunks of metal that would make for good stakes, anvils, and I’m inclined to go full old school and dish all my parts on a stump, but thought I’d seek some feedback first from folks familiar with low-end English wheels.

Steve Hamilton · #2 03-10-2022, 08:22 PM

Hi Chris

Welcome to Allmetalshaping

crystallographic · #3 03-10-2022, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavigogun

I’m a Houston resident with some mild welding and fab skills aiming to customize my motorcycles with aluminum fairings. I’ve done some raising and forming in years past; the garage is littered with chunks of metal that would make for good stakes, anvils, and I’m inclined to go full old school and dish all my parts on a stump, but thought I’d seek some feedback first from folks familiar with low-end English wheels.

Cool ideas, Repousse'

Houston has some fine collections of old cars.

Why not have a whack with the basics to let your arm and shoulders limber up, and "get the good feel" on a 24in square of 3003 alloy x .050" thickness ....?
I think there is loads of "wheeling machine" info here - to peruse in your spare minutes - while resting from the hand-working. Good way to build anticipation.

335 S Taruffi 1957 MM.jpg
Start with what you can/where you can and then go on from there.

By constant effort and practice, things will happen for you.

1957 335 S Taruffi MM.jpg

cliffrod · #4 03-11-2022, 07:55 AM

Welcome to the forum, Chris.

Bike-related work was & is a big part of my metalshaping goals. Along with a good stump, shot/sand bag and viable hammers, you can do a lot of good work with an arbor press and some simple shop made tooling. I use some wooden dies I made with lathe or belt sander with random pieces from the firewood pile. Tonnage isn't as important as throat depth. Fenders are super easy. other shapes like seat humps, tank parts and more are also easy to shape. The control and accuracy are big benefits.

Lots of info on English Wheels here, including fabricated wheels that have been used to make a lot of good work.

Mavigogun · #5 03-11-2022, 09:18 AM

Thanks for the reflection. I feel confident in being able to move metal with the aid of hammers, bags, and wooden formers. My concern is final surface refinement- I want to avoid any sign of micro discontinuities or rippled appearance if parts are highly polished; I reckoned a wheel might help with that, but don’t really know. Maybe, instead of a wheel, I would be better off just working with fractionally thicker gauge stock, refining with dolly and slapper, then abrasion.

crystallographic · #6 03-11-2022, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavigogun

Thanks for the reflection. I feel confident in being able to move metal with the aid of hammers, bags, and wooden formers. My concern is final surface refinement- I want to avoid any sign of micro discontinuities or rippled appearance if parts are highly polished; I reckoned a wheel might help with that, but don’t really know. Maybe, instead of a wheel, I would be better off just working with fractionally thicker gauge stock, refining with dolly and slapper, then abrasion.

Planishing by hand.
P1070627 copy b.jpg
Dolly on bottom, striker on top. (Curved = "spoon," shown here ...

Straight striker = "slapper." (I think of it as ironing a shirt.)

Will also stretch, if needed, using harder whacks.

289 Cobra hand working.jpg
Here is some aluminum body work that was smoothed by use of the hand tools shown. Like you mention, smoothing the metal by hand planishing and then filing carefully with the Vixen (curved tooth body file) on the wooden handle. Old school.

(Sorry that I don't have images for you of the Honda Gold Wing trike under construction, w/aluminum bodywork.

)

Mavigogun · #7 03-11-2022, 06:25 PM

Great gobs of beautiful work, that. I’ve been predisposed to eschew the vixen, but will just have to come to terms with it. What’s the alloy and thickness of your pictured work? (same as your previous recommendation?). Thanks again.

(and you’ve got the hook in my mouth with Honda project)

crystallographic · #8 03-12-2022, 03:26 PM

[QUOTE=Mavigogun;173209] snip) I’ve been predisposed to eschew the vixen, but will just have to come to terms with it. (snip

My experience as a 20yr. old apprentice was a matter of choosing wisely.
If I chose well, then I was rewarded with deep insights, personal events/stories, and shared experiences.
P1050587 copy.jpg
traditional metal-working files (no plastic, no wood), American patterns/Euro patterns. (w/tang.)

P1050393 copy.jpg
Vixen-style "curved tooth body files" (no tang)
P1050537 copy.jpg
Two old Vixen files, made by Vixen File Co., patent-holder of the design bearing their name.

Forged steel file holder, top, mfgd "PLOMB Tool MFG Co." 1930's.
The Vixen tanged 14in. file is the best file I ever used, (over the 22 years that I shoved and dragged it over...um...a thousand miles, on a hundred fine autos. It is an 8T on one side and a 12T opposite. Sharped it professionally 4 times. Tooth angle was approaching 80deg and only plowing the surface, instead of whisking off weightless feathers. So it became "holder of experiences."

P1030173 copy.jpg
Shaped aluminum, .050" 3003, being "edge filed" with special file/holder combo. Mfgd Austria, (17th gen family file maker/descendant runs the company today.) (Advises Aus. nat'l ski team on edge sharpening.)

might note that this bottom surface has been "dressed" to minimize roughness .... this also magnified tool marks ... like the measured rhythmic stomps of the Air Power Hammer - opposite the repeated-arch cascades of the old thumbnail Pullmax shrink dies. (1994)

(Aluminum Examples previously = .050" 3003, 1965 289 Cobra ...

and .040" 3003, from 1957 Ferrari factory race-team car.)
................ and ...

Were I to choose poorly, I was left to menial tasks, happily in my lonsesome.

The five years I apprenticed days, while working nights in a resto shop, and weekends re-invigorating an old farm truck forged an intense educational elliptic to my life trajectory.

It's wise for me to make correct effort to choose well.

blue62 · #9 03-12-2022, 06:35 PM

Kent,
Wonderful examples of great old files.
sadly I don't think Heller, Simonds,or Nicholson are made in the USA anymore. The last Nicholson I purchased was made in Mexico.
Simons... India I think

I have not seen a Heller or Delta in ages.
When I was interested and trying my hand at custom gunstock making I acquired some nice wood working files out of Germany but that source is long gone.

crystallographic · #10 03-14-2022, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue62

Kent,
Wonderful examples of great old files.
sadly I don't think Heller, Simonds,or Nicholson are made in the USA anymore. The last Nicholson I purchased was made in Mexico.
Simons... India I think

I have not seen a Heller or Delta in ages.
When I was interested and trying my hand at custom gunstock making I acquired some nice wood working files out of Germany but that source is long gone.

Sad to see the awesome American file companies fade out ...
We do carry some very good files now.
It took over a year of constant effort to round up good replacements ...
https://www.tinmantech.com/products/...files-holders/

Ford bought out all of our stock of Simonds "bodi-files" a couple of years back. They were completely unobtanium ... we found some originals (few boxes of them) 10 years ago ... now gone too.