All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > Basic questions and answers
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-27-2021, 01:54 PM
Brzeczyszczykiewicz Brzeczyszczykiewicz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Poland
Posts: 174
Default What's between wood and steel?

I am just trying to rebuild a steel and wooden car. Originally, some spacer fabric was inserted between the wooden skeleton and the car frame. Like a pad for leveling unevenness. What is put between the wood and the frame today to keep it working for another (hundred) years?
__________________
In the morning I was convinced that this was the only solution.

Witold
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VTz6ETWQhnKyqUQYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzcKlFjOAoE
http://forum.poziome.pl/index.php?topic=1989.0
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-28-2021, 07:47 AM
rustreapers rustreapers is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 132
Default Thermal expansion.

Fabric, usually canvas, is there to allow the wood/metal to slide separately . All material expands/shrinks at a different rate. To be scientific. The amount of expansion/shrink is calculated by the expansion rate of the material times the temperature difference times the length of material. For replacement material look for something that does not absorb water. You do not want to rot the wood nor rust the metal.
__________________
John Phillips "bustin rust and eating dust"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-28-2021, 02:01 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
MetalShaper of the Month April 2020, September 2021, November 2022
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 2,601
Default

Witold. That's what I'm interested in. I'm just tiling the car and we don't put anything between wood and sheet metal. It is lined with aluminum sheet. I did not observe the substance in other cars. I need to look more closely.
The one who advised me said that the sheet metal must be placed exactly on the wood. There was no talk of fabric.
__________________
Jaroslav
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-29-2021, 10:01 AM
Don Papenburg Don Papenburg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: LaSalle county Illinois , USA
Posts: 99
Default

I have a reprint of an old Fisher body manual some place around here . However I do not recall having seen anything about placing something between the wood and the steel . my 29 Chevy truck was just steel on wood . the 33 Pontiac does not have anything either . It might just be the hand made customs and high end very expensive cars of the day that had a little something extra.
__________________
Don Papenburg
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-29-2021, 01:00 PM
Steve Hamilton's Avatar
Steve Hamilton Steve Hamilton is offline
ADMINISTRATOR MetalShaper of the Month Dec. '09 & May '11
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fond du Lac WI.
Posts: 2,405
Default

I was told by craftsmen older than me that the fabric was used to stop squeaking, when the wood and metal rubbed together.

What I have seen was a woven heavy cloth about 1/16 thick. I have also seen it soaked or impregnated with tar or cosmolean type material.

If memory serves me Model A Ford used on frame below wood body mount blocks. Also between wood and metal in roof area. A hupmobile I worked on a number of years ago used it in a similar manner. Current project a 1953 EMW also has the cloth used as well.
__________________
Steve Hamilton
Hamilton Classics
Auto Restoration & Metalshaping
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-29-2021, 02:36 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 , April '16, July 2020, Jan 2023
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 4,388
Default

I've only seen this on coachbuilt auto bodies - not the production cars - even the Caddy V16, Packard 12, Lincoln 12 had none- unless coachbuilt.

Bugatti used a thin fabric - we used linen because it was a period type of fabric, weave and weight. Also as carpet underlayment, first of two under carpet. (Carrosserie Bugatti - not Gangloff.)

Touring primed the steel frames with some sort of brush-on orange primer then laid on the cotton fabric over the tubing and under the aluminum skins - we used linen as we had rolls of it.
They also used burlap that was pushed into interior gaps in trunk area and was then brushed with hot tar.

Sindelfingen had fabric under floorboards and between wood and floor pans to reduce leakage.

Graber used fabric under floorboards and around floor pans to limit leaks. We used linen after all painting done and pans were being installed into floor areas. Nice, clean and tidy.

Other than that, I have no idea.
-end-
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-30-2021, 12:26 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 , April '16, July 2020, Jan 2023
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 4,388
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
I've only seen this on coachbuilt auto bodies - not the production cars - even the Caddy V16, Packard 12, Lincoln 12 had none- unless coachbuilt.

Bugatti used a thin fabric - we used linen because it was a period type of fabric, weave and weight. Also as carpet underlayment, first of two under carpet. (Carrosserie Bugatti - not Gangloff.)

Touring primed the steel frames with some sort of brush-on orange primer then laid on the cotton fabric over the tubing and under the aluminum skins - we used linen as we had rolls of it.
They also used burlap that was pushed into interior gaps in trunk area and was then brushed with hot tar.

Sindelfingen had fabric under floorboards and between wood and floor pans to reduce leakage.

Graber used fabric under floorboards and around floor pans to limit leaks. We used linen after all painting done and pans were being installed into floor areas. Nice, clean and tidy.

Other than that, I have no idea.
-end-

Further, on the production cars I am familiar with (1910 - 1941, various US mfg), an anti-squeak anti-chafe heavy woven and frame-wide tar-embedded fabric was laid onto the steel (or wooden - Franklins) chassis frames and the bodies set on top of that. Spacers of tire tread, square cut and center punched were commonly also used where the body hold-down bolts came through. These were arranged/stacked also to shim the body correctly for its proper mounting geometry, to absorb the little variations in production.
-end-
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-30-2021, 01:27 PM
dwmh dwmh is offline
MetalShaper of the Month May 2018, July 2022
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Nr Oxford UK
Posts: 659
Default

Gosh, Kent I wish I had your level of 'no idea' on this and many more subjects.
Good man.
__________________
David Hamer
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-30-2021, 02:03 PM
Brzeczyszczykiewicz Brzeczyszczykiewicz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Poland
Posts: 174
Default

IMG_20211029_165756.jpg

IMG_20211029_165858.jpg

You are right that the distances were used in exclusive cars. In the second photo, the remains of the original material taken from the car. It was used as spacers in places where the wood was screwed to the frame and along the entire frame (one layer). My question: what to apply today? Can you buy something similar?
__________________
In the morning I was convinced that this was the only solution.

Witold
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VTz6ETWQhnKyqUQYA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzcKlFjOAoE
http://forum.poziome.pl/index.php?topic=1989.0
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-30-2021, 03:15 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 , April '16, July 2020, Jan 2023
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 4,388
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brzeczyszczykiewicz View Post
Attachment 61605

Attachment 61606

You are right that the distances were used in exclusive cars. In the second photo, the remains of the original material taken from the car. It was used as spacers in places where the wood was screwed to the frame and along the entire frame (one layer). My question: what to apply today? Can you buy something similar?

In Oka City -

https://classicautoparts.com/anti-squeak-pad
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.