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Old 11-15-2020, 02:46 AM
Bearwen Bearwen is offline
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Default shape on in and out only well mostly????

Hello ALL,
So i had another go at the wheel today and no matter what profile anvil or the amount of pressure used the panel wants to shape mostly curving on the in and out direction very little if any on the side to side or across the lower anvil in the direction that is parallel with the shaft of the anvil.

I tried short pieces long pieces supported long pieces and unsupported long pieces and I tried different levels of pressure and every single time i get most if not only curve in the panel on the in and out direction and not across the lower anvils desired radius.

What am I doing wrong is is that normal from all the videos I have watched I dont believe its normal.

I am going to check in the morning to make sure the anvils when pushed together are not offset and tip the panel.
Thats the only thing I can think of as to why I get little to no curve across the lower anvils cut radius and get lots of curve on the in and out direction.


Pleas let me know what I can check or what is the issue.

I am using a Harbour fright English wheel I am not expecting it to be amazing but at least good enough to learn the basics and desired if I want to spend money to buy a better wheel.

Thank You
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Old 11-15-2020, 03:23 AM
skintkarter skintkarter is offline
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Hi Berry, please give us some pictures of what you are achieving and your machine setup. Also the material and thickness (steel/aluminum, gauge).
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2020, 03:55 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Will this thread help you? To create the shape for the first time, you can use a mallet in combination with a soft pad to keep the material soft. Then iron on the EW. Attach it on a motorcycle and departure.



http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=19643
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:01 AM
Stretch Stretch is offline
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Try wheeling the panel at 90 degrees ie “cross-wheeling” to gain curve in the adjacent plane. What you are probably fighting is “flex” in your wheeling machine. By cross-wheeling, you should achieve double curvature with slightly less pressure. Also, remember to not wheel too close to the edges. Wheeling at the edges will release shape and make the panel flat again.

Cheers, Matt
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Old 11-15-2020, 10:40 AM
Mike Whelan Mike Whelan is offline
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Berry,

This is normal behaviour for an ewheel. The metal curves more in the direction of the smallest radius. The radius of the anvil is smaller at 90 degrees to the axle on low crown anvils.

For that reason you get more curvature along the axis that you are tracking.

There is also an additional factor at work in some cases: pushing a pulling the metal can easily introduce a downward bias on the metal which adds to the curvature along the axis of travel. This happens more with larger panels that are difficult to control single handed.

If you want more curvature in a particular direction , you rotate the panel and wheel in that direction.

Bear in mind that wheeling introduces curvature in both axes so you have to keep checking with a profile gauge.
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Old 11-15-2020, 04:54 PM
Bearwen Bearwen is offline
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thanks for the replies.

I am using full radius anvils and I am willing 3003 aluminum.


Correct me if I am wrong but when your wheeling a panel most of the shape should be side to side in the shape of the lower anvils machined radius correct?

Not on the in and out feed direction.

my panels come out looking like a motorcycle fender a little shape across the lower anvils machined radius and ALOT of curve on the in and out feed direction.
This happens no matter if I support the panel dont support the panel use no or very low pressure or use a stiffer pressure.
The only thing that changes with different pressures and support is the quickness as to how fast the panel forms.

@Mike Whelan
I read or heard that somewhere but it didnt seem right since almost every video by the BIG guys seems that they dont have that problem and get more shape across the lower anvils machined radius and unless your using a really really small radius every anvil will be smaller in radius since the steel anvil is usually a 2" - 3" piece or round stock so 1" - 1.5" radius pretty sure almost no one uses anvils with that small of a machined radius or at least there very uncommon.


As for pictures I dont have any but the sentence above about the motorcycle fender shape should give you a good visual.

So no one asks I am not trying to make a motorcycle fender in fact I am trying to do a fairly low crown panel and I always ebd up withto much crown in one or both directions.

I am trying to do a roof panel (half a roof whole to big for one person) the panel is 20 x 24 or so.
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Old 11-15-2020, 05:02 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Am I correct that you don't have a clear shape or is it too bulging in the middle?
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Old 11-16-2020, 05:22 AM
Stretch Stretch is offline
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Berry - have you tried cross-wheeling as suggested by Mike etc? This will work 100%.

There are a lot of misinformation videos on YouTube etc. Some of them say you should never cross-wheel etc. Total garbage.

Shape, generally, will be greatest in the direction of tracking. Give it a go.

To some extent shape perpendicular to tracking can be controlled by lower anvil radius: i.e. it’s nigh on impossible to get a radius tighter than the lower anvil. Unless, of course, you take the panel out of “arrangement”, but this is way too advanced and a whole different topic for discussion.

Regards, Matt
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Last edited by Stretch; 11-16-2020 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 11-16-2020, 06:34 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Yes, some videos are misleading. You need to think and try a lot.
Maybe one method will help. When I made the hood on MB. At first I felt it was small, then it was a lot. A friend give advised me. He turned the edge, shaped it, and returned the edge. It was not recognizable from the original. The edge holds the shape. It doesn't have to be exactly. It is bent only to maintain shape. You shape the inner part exactly where you need it and you straighten the edge.
DSC09704.jpg

DSC097081.jpg
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Old 11-19-2020, 11:27 AM
weldtoride weldtoride is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearwen View Post
...

I am using full radius anvils and I am willing 3003 aluminum.


....This happens no matter if I support the panel dont support the panel use no or very low pressure or use a stiffer pressure.


....I always end up with to much crown in one or both directions.

....I am trying to do a roof panel (half a roof whole to big for one person) the panel is 20 x 24 or so.
Hi, Berry. Welcome to the world of self-teaching from print and video. If I may offer my own humble 2 cents from my experiences, as I too, was putting in shape too fast to control at first.

For a low crown panel like you are trying to shape, start with the flattest lower anvil from the set you have, and run practice runs over your sheet, with the anvils barely touching the sheet. In other words, just enough to make both anvils spin.

The intent is to practice "steering" and not to introduce shape.

Concentrate on steering your sheet in a tight zig-zag wheeling pattern progressing from one side of the sheet over to the other. And yes, rotate your sheet and make passes at 90 degrees to your first ones. Practice runs will build some "muscle memory" that helps.

Later on, a similar technique with minimal contact is called a "final wash-over" by some and it is used to relieve any tension that might be in the panel.

Once comfortable with being able to steer your pieces around, start sneaking up on the pressure much, much slower than you might think. In fact, with aluminum and a full-radius lower anvil, I would not be surprised if the practice wheeling doesn't effect the shape.

Mark
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