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Old 04-22-2020, 09:22 AM
Payupv8 Payupv8 is offline
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Default Working weld seem distortion from the front.

So hereís the question I have been asked to install two quarter panel patches on two cars unfortunately there is no access to the back side of the weld seem, how can I work the distortion since I know there is gonna be some, without removing the whole quarter panel? I have seen someone use a shrinking disc on the high spots of a panel after they welded a patch in and had no access. I am trying to decide if I want to take the jobs on. Thank you
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:31 AM
gashammer gashammer is offline
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I'm sure you're going to get some great answers, but...

I recently got wrangled into a job of putting some custom (Kindig) recessed door handles on an old Trans Am. The doors had been shaven (poorly) of the original door handles in the past, the area was badly warped, the edges of the door skin were paper thin, there was so much bracing behind it that access was impossible. Only solution was to cut out most of the area, slowly MIG it in as not to warp it more and hope for the best. I told the owner, a friend of mine, that it wasn't really my kind of work and what to expect.

I did the job. It looked like shit in my eyes. After seeing my daily work (old Porsche's) I could tell he was a little disappointed and I discounted the work substantially to reflect that. He understood that it wasn't going to be perfect without swapping both door skins, etc... He understood and paid.

The lesson I learned is to not accept jobs that I know will not turn out to my expectations. You lose money, you're disappointed in the work and you have the anchor around your neck of knowing that work is out there.
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:47 AM
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MP&C MP&C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Payupv8 View Post
So here’s the question I have been asked to install two quarter panel patches on two cars unfortunately there is no access to the back side of the weld seem, how can I work the distortion since I know there is gonna be some, without removing the whole quarter panel? I have seen someone use a shrinking disc on the high spots of a panel after they welded a patch in and had no access. I am trying to decide if I want to take the jobs on. Thank you
The welds are going to shrink and pull inward. Further shrinking with the disc are going to shrink and pull inward, so that will not be a good fix either. If you can't get access to properly planish the weld seam, as Mike stated above, it's a billboard of your work, but perhaps not what you'd want advertised. I would look into how it could be done, whether that's removing quarter or cutting access holes, or removing wheel wells, explain to prospective customer why it needs to be done that way. If they have budget enough to pay for the extra time and effort to do a job that you'd be proud of, you may want to consider it. If they don't care to pay that much, (ie: budget dictates poor quality) they will likely be the first to complain that you did a bad job. In which case it won't be worth your time. I'd rather have no advertising from passing on the job than bad advertising for meeting an insufficient budget....
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Old 04-22-2020, 10:49 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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The lesson I learned is to not accept jobs that I know will not turn out to my expectations. You lose money, you're disappointed in the work and you have the anchor around your neck of knowing that work is out there.
Very well said. I was taught to be careful about what you quote because you might get the job.. Sometimes it's the job. Sometimes it's the customer.

Just because you can get a job doesn't mean you should do it.
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:56 PM
drivejunk drivejunk is offline
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I must have been in this situation a hundred times before I even heard of planishing. With one side pitted to steel leaf thickness and 18 ga on the other. Act like you never heard of planishing and do the job with the least warpage possible, using only enough heat for adequate penetration. If you keep filler to less than 1/8", thats all anyone could be expected to do without giant overly critical measures. And it can be good body work, if you can coat the backside adquately. Chances are it is a plain old car for a person who's lifetime is half gone and your work won't be kicked back by a future generation. Now if it were a space ship, that would be different!
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:25 PM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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Replace more of the panel than initially envisioned so your seams end up where they are accessible from both sides. End of problem . ~ John Buchtenkirch
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:38 PM
Payupv8 Payupv8 is offline
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Than you guys for all the input. I guess I really need to look at it see what itís gonna take. They have expressed that they want no filler maybe a little would be acceptable so Iam not sure, just need to see how their budget is.
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Old 04-22-2020, 06:15 PM
drivejunk drivejunk is offline
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If it is a zero filler request, throw my advice out the window and insist on replacing a larger section as advised by the others.

To answer the title of the topic, and if budget will not allow the nicer version... I have found welding a pull tab or using wiggle wire along the sunken weld to be sometimes effective, to varying degrees. It does nothing to offset the shrinkage but gives you a way to hold the weld out as you slap down what feels like high spots on either side of it so the filler has less abrupt thickness changes.
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Old 04-25-2020, 04:43 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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I've read the problem Eric faces/faced .... and the subsequent input.
Robert - wise advise, and from JB, too, and Cliff, also.
I cannot add much, just that I agree with:"not every customer that comes in the shop is your customer."
And also: "Analyse the job carefully and take it ONLY IF you know you can do it - it will represent you in the years ahead."

What does not work - since welds Shrink - Always - is using more shrinking to fix weld distortion. Complete non-starter method, in this case.
Stretch the weld - but with no access - big problem.
Like JB says, "Look for the areas with backside access and use those access areas when planning your part replacement."


Like JB, I have had some interesting jobs along this line .... cutting hand/tool access holes that I can weld/planish out, and using those to access the repair area.


And... Planishing The Weld - why do it?
1) it helps flatten/crush the weld bead - limiting or entirely eliminating Abrasives.

2) relieves/levels distortion
3) hardens weld-softened metal
4) reverses weld-created shrinkage!
5) increases weld density - from "casting grade porous" to tight cold-forged.
6) improves overall strength-consistency of the panel, both audibly and visually. Such performance can be Important to overall function.
7) Can provide a way of avoiding abrasives, entirely.
- that is all-
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