All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > General Discussion
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-14-2020, 12:34 PM
Craig510 Craig510 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Livermore CA
Posts: 4
Default Wheeling Machines: Lazze vs Tommasini

I am in the market for a quality English wheel. I took the Lazze Metal Shaping class in February so I know his machines are high quality and do the job well. I was all set to buy one and then I discovered the Peter Tommasini cast iron ones.

Does anyone have first hand experience using both machines? It looks like you can get a smoother panel finish with the full radius wheels that Hoosier makes for the Tommasini wheel, however, I could order some full radius wheels for Lazze's wheel and the Lazze wheel comes with some offset wheels which were really nice for tight areas. Alternatively, I could order a couple of offset wheels and maybe one with some contact flats for the Tommasini one as well so the it is about a wash. I am just down the street from Lazze so I can pick it up in person. Price wise they are about a wash. I know I could build one for less (I am a Mechanical Engineer and would do way to much stress analysis on it) but I want to start making panels and not designing and building equipment right now.

I am a bit concerned with the inner frame clearance below the anvils on Tommasini wheel, it looks like you could run into the frame occasionally while making something like a motorcycle fender. His machine will also require fabricating a stand and making a foot adjuster for anvil pressure and ordering from multiple places plus international and domestic shipping. The Lazze machine is ready to go and the lower anvil is raised well above the frame for good clearance.

Notice how close the fender is to the frame?


Certainly a beautiful machine that will hold its value well and last 100+ years with proper care


Lazze's machine is form following function. Simple, efficient and rigid. This machine will last many years as well but closed box sections can rust from the inside out and due to all the Chinese and Euro knockoffs it probably won't hold its value quite as well.
__________________
-Craig
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-14-2020, 01:14 PM
Chris_Hamilton Chris_Hamilton is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Southisde Virginia
Posts: 329
Default

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showt...eeling+machine


http://www.allmetalshaping.com/searc...=5266890&pp=25
__________________
Chris (trying to be the best me I can be)

Last edited by Chris_Hamilton; 03-14-2020 at 01:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-14-2020, 04:38 PM
Charlie Myres Charlie Myres is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Narrogin, Western Australia
Posts: 579
Default

I have a McPherson wheel, which is what Peter uses and looks like a bigger version of the Tommasini wheel. I have had no trouble using it, despite having instruction from DVD's rather than a person.

I have a set of full radius wheels and creating a curve from a flat sheet is fast and easy. I can't understand why anyone would want flats on their wheels; the idea is to stretch metal, not to crush a large area. Have a look at this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbFa7KyZ_pA

Peter says that the McPherson is the best wheel he has ever used and he has used most of them.

Have you tried using the Tommasini wheel? I would, before buying a fabricated one.

Cheers Charlie
__________________
Why does dust stick to everything, but nothing sticks to dust?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-14-2020, 05:55 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
MetalShaper of the Month April 2020, September 2021, November 2022
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 2,601
Default

If you use a bevel wheel, the frame doesn't matter.

DSC08452.jpg

DSC08453.jpg
__________________
Jaroslav
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-14-2020, 08:24 PM
Craig510 Craig510 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Livermore CA
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaroslav View Post
If you use a bevel wheel, the frame doesn't matter.

Attachment 55548

Attachment 55549
Very interesting. That would create a speed differential between the inner and outer edges of the upper wheel.

I think this is enough to put down a deposit on the Tommasini wheel of he is going to cast more.
__________________
-Craig
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-15-2020, 02:20 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
MetalShaper of the Month April 2020, September 2021, November 2022
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 2,601
Default

Craig. I wouldn't look for much science in the difference in peripheral speed and diameter. When shaping, you have to understand the fibers of the material and turn on your own mental cnc system.
Just a idea how to bypass the small limiting frame. Strength is important. A hard frame is important. You don't have to think about EW and its flexibility. You can only concentrate on work.
__________________
Jaroslav
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:11 AM
RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Jan 2019
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,089
Default

Keep your eyes peeled. There is a 'rumor' that another shipment of Peters wheeling machines might be being prepared for shipment to the US. Nothing concrete, but It is being discussed.

As a side note, the ongoing discussion regarding cast vs fabricated wheeling machines has generally been about design driven by ego, when it is actually about physics and technic as applied to the type of material being shaped.

A skilled metal shaper who understands this can make beautiful work regardless of machine style. Right left coast?
__________________
Will
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-16-2020, 01:26 AM
metal manny metal manny is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 509
Default

I think they're both great machines produced by knowledgeable experts wheeling out fantastic products on both. It just boils down to personal preference... and that's OK!

I have a self-fabricated clone of the Imperial machine, and guess what, it also works mighty fine too. Unless there is insufficient rigidity (spring and slop) in the X,Y&Z planes, I think any machine will work just about as good as any other.

I see many of the craftsmen (Wray, Peter etc.) jumping around on different e-wheels in their videos, and I think they just setup each machine by feel and get on with the job, finding each machine's sweet spot to suit the task at hand.
__________________
Manny

Remember that the best of men, are only men at best.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.