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  #21  
Old 11-06-2013, 07:43 PM
outsider347 outsider347 is offline
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+1
keep the discussion steel

I seem to have pretty good result tacking the pieces without filler rod.
& welds look ok on top, but lack proper penetration. when I try to adjust by slowing down, blows thru.

I'm welding 20ga following Davids instructions here & his DVD

I'm using a mini Harris torch # mini #5 tip

I think I'm close, but need practice
Fun though!
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  #22  
Old 11-06-2013, 09:12 PM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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This is a great thread... it's not often we have three masters interacting like this.
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  #23  
Old 11-06-2013, 11:31 PM
Dyce Dyce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Oh, that is a lovely job, welding on the crown like that, David.
So, what about the flat sections? What do you do, say when welding a flat patch into a flat section? Perhaps when replacing the grille on the steel XKE bonnet, with that welded doubler right next to the area, at the rear? I'm very curious about the weld distortion, and what you do there.

Attachment 24525
I agree with David to make it all new, if you have the equipment..... If I were to weld that I would fit the panels tight and clamp the louver section to a flat plate with about a 1/4 inch of the panel hanging over, same with the outside panel. Now you have 1/2 in. weld area with support on each side of the weld far enough away it won't effect penetration, but it will give support similar to a crown David was talking about. I've done it and it works to a point. You still have distortion to work out....
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  #24  
Old 11-07-2013, 01:54 AM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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I wouldn’t be afraid of welding around those louvers as long as there’s ¾” open on both sides of the weld seam, my standard CP dies are 1 ½” in diameter. I do have some smaller diameter dies but they can be trickier to use. ~ John Buchtenkirch
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  #25  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:03 AM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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The title of the thread is 'planishing gas welds hot or cold', the OP never said steel. I only mention aluminium to point out that when gas welding ally it is normal practice to make the weld in one go.

The E-type bonnet is not made from one piece it has wings and a centre piece. Like I said earlier it is better and quicker to make a larger piece and put the weld in a place that will resist distortion. I would make a larger repair section and have one weld to deal with.

David
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  #26  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:18 AM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Walter View Post
Now I'm really lost....

Rather than welding in new louvers, you'd make a whole hood for a E-Type?

I'm trying to figure out why a skip weld would cause more distortion. Take two panels, tack weld them (small tacks) every two inches. Now go back weld 1", skip 3", weld 1", skip3....

Let's keep it to steel discussions, so I can get my brain around this one first.
I answered your first question above. Peter and I both explained why skip welding and hammering while hot can leave distortion. To reiterate uneven heating of the panel causes the panel to shrink more in one place than another as it cools. Hammering when hot can cause the panel to shrink, as Peter said this is the shrinking process. It's possible to cause uneven distortion doing it that way.

David
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  #27  
Old 11-07-2013, 10:54 AM
Leebo! Leebo! is offline
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For future discussion. All my work will be in sheet metal. (not sure if aluminum shrinks or puddles under heat anyway!)

even last night I welded some blanks of metal together. I tacked one end, had a tight gap, and started welding toward the other. by the time I made to the other end, my tight gap had moved to the point of overlapping.

It did take me 3 bead attempts to cover this whole piece. This was due to blowing thru, or having to readjust my flame due to debris.

the project I will be tackling soon is similar to this:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=798412

I would like to figure out how to get my center patch fixed, and then finish welding it.

I see a lot of benefit in David G's method of one long well controlled bead/HAZ, but at the moment that is above my skill level.

How would you guys that DONT weld one continuous bead go about it?

Like I said before, I have a scrap hood to practice on. Maybe after this weekend I will post some pics of my experience. But I would also like to go into my practice run with the best method I can muster

Thanks as always for the continued input!
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  #28  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:08 PM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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GUYS…… COME ON, hammer welding hot welds causes shrinking ??? Traditional hammer welding was always done with a backup dolly to reverse the welding heat caused shrinkage and to level out the welded area. You really need a domed / raised up area to hammer flat to cause shrinking and once you’ve hammered that area down to tight against the dolly then stretching occurs if you hammer any further. Hammer welding helped the early customizers correct the flow between 2 slightly misaligned panels (with varying degrees of success) and can still work well today depending on the skill level of the person doing it.

However now I prefer tacking and running continues fusion welds with a tig welder (on steel) and then planish out the shrinkage with my CP planishing hammer, it saves me a lot of time compared to the old hammer welding days. If I didn’t own a tig I’d use the same technique using gas welding, I’d never use mig (welds are too hard) for butt welding panels even though it can be done. IMO hammer welding is a technique that’s day has come and is now fading away with time but it is still certainly a technique that can work. If you want to build a fifties style custom and believe it has to be hammer welded to be correct, well good for you but please don’t ask me to build it for you. My 2 cents worth, probably from the senseless. ~ John Buchtenkirch
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  #29  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:40 PM
Leebo! Leebo! is offline
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Damn, can you see how all of this confuses a new guy??
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  #30  
Old 11-07-2013, 03:53 PM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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John, no-one is saying that it is not possible to hammer weld. I use hammer welding at times. The point is that to shrink a panel you heat it and allow it to cool or quench it. You do not have to raise a lump.

When a weld is made the panel is heated, as steel cools it shrinks beyond its original state. If the joint is heated more in one place than another the area will shrink more I one place than another. This is what causes the panel to distort. If the HAZ is even little distortion is caused.

It's not the only way to get good results but it is a good method that will require less work to finish. I show both gas and tig on my DVD and either works for steel. I prefer gas welding.

David
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