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  #11  
Old 01-04-2019, 03:46 PM
Onorius Onorius is offline
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Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
Onorius - you are welcome!

The method Peter describes of one person holding the panel moving it up and down whilst the other welds is very accurate also! At Lynx I would sometimes do the holding and tweeking up and down whilst Frank Knight would weld from start to finish without a single tack! He could also weld two large aluminium panels together without a single tack by himself!!! He was and is the only person to date I've ever seen do this in my 35 years of working in classic car restoration. Miss you Frank! R.i.P. old buddy.

Matt
Wow this is fantastic, I like this system very much because you do not have to work so much with the flattened and it seems a strong resistance even if it has small pinches. It is true if you want polish then it is not recommended.
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2019, 04:59 PM
Chris_Hamilton Chris_Hamilton is offline
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A BIG Thank you to Peter and Matt for sharing that information.
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2019, 05:06 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Here in the US, the approach/technique can vary somewhat but overall it is pretty much consistent:


For O/Acet torch welding of aluminum -
Clean the aluminum to bright, first with an acceptable solvent and then by brushing with a clean ss brush.

Choose tip dia that is 3/4 to equal to your metal thickness, so ... since tip dia per tip number varies per tip manufacturer,

Meco Midget #2 = SmithAw1A #AW204 = Henrob Dillon Cobra #1.25 = Harris15 #2 = Victor J #0, and etc.
Set flame with torch knobs open 3 turns using regulators, then turn flame down so inner cone is equal in length to 3x metal thicknesses, with a slight fuel-rich feather (carburizing or reducing flame setting).
Hold torch at a 90deg angle to heat your spot to weld and when the surface gets shiny, tilt torch to a 45 deg angle.
Keep inner cone at a nickel's thickness from the surface to be welded.
Move quickly - more quickly than steel - The Rule for welding aluminum via any method is "HOT AND FAST" ...
In my workshop trainings I teach flange welding first, with zero filler. Then butt welds, either with or without filler.
With filler you tack where you can along the full length of the weld, then go back and tack every 1inch to 1.5 inches.

Without filler you can simply start your weld at the second tack, and by holding the loose panel tightly against the fixed panel you fuse them together - while gently moving the loose panel as you progress, so that the seam is tight and even along the way. Large panels of 2 to 5 feet may be joined this way, without tacking or filler, depending on your physical ability. American race car builders like Jack Hagemann, Dick Troutmann, and Quinn Epperle often welded panels this way. Jack Hagemann worked for Porsche racing, building spyders in the early 1960's. I would get information from him when I was restoring an RSK and an RS60.

Since the US focused mainly on producing high-production steel cars, aluminum autobody working was limited to custom coach shops, like Brewster, Brunn, Coachcraft, Hibbard and Darrin, LeBaron, Judkins, Fisher and etc.

WW2 halted all auto production and aluminum welding was carried out to produce 330,000 airplanes in 3.5 years for the War effort.


By the way, TM Tech uses the aluminum welding instruction used by North American Aviation, which trained people to torch weld aluminum in 6 hours.


Here is a short clip showing O-H lap welding of tubing to sheet for an old airplane:
https://www.facebook.com/19094894868...5187514488690/
(very sorry it's not yet on youtoob for y'all)

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Celebrating Tradition,
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Last edited by crystallographic; 01-04-2019 at 05:15 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:06 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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This is becoming quite a treasure of a "how to gas weld aluminum" thread- thank you to Peter, Matt and Kent.

One detail about flux & flange welding that hasn't been addressed- how much of the panel is fluxed? Is flux only used on the vertical portions of the flanges that will touch the adjoining flange or is it applied to a greater area?
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:19 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onorius View Post
Peter Tommasini:
So here I will try to explain how

In Italy two people would weld a long and large panel, by one person holding the two panels together, and manipulating the panels so the next person (after preparing and fluxing the two panels) would run the oxy torch over the joint and melt the two parts together. Then the panel would get replenished and hammered up on a Maglio , then finished off by hand, this method is very hard to do, and I have only seen a few people doing it right.
I my self cannot get it .





I want to see if I get it right. This means no tack first?
Onorius
No tacks at all, simply start at one end and weld continuously to the end
Peter
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  #16  
Old 01-05-2019, 06:21 AM
Onorius Onorius is offline
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Thank you very much to all of Matt, Kent, Peter for the precious information.

In these pictures are my first gas welds of aluminum after about 5 hours of practice after watching the DVD (Gas welding ALUMINUM 2.1 The Difficult), the welding is without filler rod even when I'm tuck.
That's not what I was going to do, but I could not use fiiler rod while I was welding. It was difficult for me to co-ordinate both hands at once. The idea was that I thought it was not right to weld aluminum without filler rod like steel. Then I cleaned the car I work with the old paint and surprise I found this type of welding. And then I wondered how I could do this kind of weld in the correct way "not how I invented it accidentally".

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Last edited by galooph; 01-05-2019 at 10:00 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2019, 08:21 AM
Stretch Stretch is offline
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That's a good start I'd say. Keep practising and you'll get better and better. It's all about eye coordination and muscle memory. Keep at it 👍
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  #18  
Old 01-05-2019, 06:40 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onorius View Post
Thank you very much to all of Matt, Kent, Peter for the precious information.

In these pictures are my first gas welds of aluminum after about 5 hours of practice after watching the DVD (Gas welding ALUMINUM 2.1 The Difficult), the welding is without filler rod even when I'm tuck.
That's not what I was going to do, but I could not use fiiler rod while I was welding. It was difficult for me to co-ordinate both hands at once.

Looking good.
For the "blows" - and they occur every now and then - clean the flux off and hammer/dolly the thick spots around the holes and the holes close up - then you can re-weld easily to finish the weld.
Your surface looks like your:
water is not clean
or
the flux is thin
or
your gas is a bit dirty.
Rough surface means some contamination, someplace. Welds should be smoooth.
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  #19  
Old 01-05-2019, 09:00 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Onorius

Your practice is looking good keep going and you will get the hang of it

The only suggestion I have for you is to use equal size pieces of ally when practicing, this way equal heat goes in to the 2 pieces and it will help you reducing holes on the weld . After that when you have mastered the welds , then try to have a smaller piece at on end and try to control the heat on the two different size pieces
Peter
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM
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  #20  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:04 AM
Onorius Onorius is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tommasini View Post
Onorius

Your practice is looking good keep going and you will get the hang of it

The only suggestion I have for you is to use equal size pieces of ally when practicing, this way equal heat goes in to the 2 pieces and it will help you reducing holes on the weld . After that when you have mastered the welds , then try to have a smaller piece at on end and try to control the heat on the two different size pieces
Peter
thanks a lot for suggestion I will try with two pieces of the same size
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