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  #31  
Old 03-11-2019, 12:12 PM
Reno Reno is offline
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This is timely for me also. I originally made full radius lower anvils for my English wheel, and thought I could put flats on later. It became a roundtoit project and I learned to shape with them at low pressures so they didn't track. I see no reason to add flats to them now. Especially since my pieces are so small compared to a full size door skin.
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  #32  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:09 PM
RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
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I became a believer in just a few minutes, when at Oblong, Peter Tommasini had me making low crown door skins in a matter of a few minutes. Both for the instruction and for the panel making. No washing was required.
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  #33  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:37 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHillWill View Post
I became a believer in just a few minutes, when at Oblong, Peter Tommasini had me making low crown door skins in a matter of a few minutes. Both for the instruction and for the panel making. No washing was required.

Yep, washing over takes time.
Faster ways are always better.

(I used to think that the flats got there by wearing down, but after a while I understood that the ratio was nearly the same - impossible by wear on different machines,of different ages, in different usages - alum vs steel, for instance, and how does alu wear the hardened rolls in one's lifetime?)
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  #34  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:46 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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[QUOTE=mark g;153936]
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Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post

Later, I worked on a Wheel that was purchased from the Frank Kurtis remnants, vintage pre-1952 or so. Had a sprocket on the upper so it could be driven for making long skinny sections. I used that Wheel a lot for a while. The rolls all had flats. And the upper was tapered off from the center flat, so that the widest flat on a lower would match the flat on the upper. The Wheel was a dream to use. The taper was .080" or so, by straightedge. I've only seen a few uppers like that, over the years.


Kent,
I'm interested in your experience with the wheeling machine mentioned above. Was the machine a dream to use because of the unique upper wheel with the tapers, or for other reasons. What specific benefits did you notice in the wheel being configured that way? Was it limited in anyway when compares to a typical flat upper wheel? Thanks.

The ex-Kurtis wheel (Edwards) had almost zero runout on the rolls and upper.

The finish was 320 grit and very smooth - no nicks.
The slight taper on the upper made doing large panels alone quite easy.
The machine had been set and proven by skilled craftsmen - and it sure showed.
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  #35  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:13 PM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tommasini View Post
.... If anvils where made purposely with flats, how one determine the width of the flat on each radius anvil ? In another words how wide is the flat on a 36 inches anvil compared to a 8.5 inches anvil etc ? Or are we just guessing??
WAY back in the early days of Metalshaping on the internet and before there were many new commercial products on the market, Wray Schelin posted this drawing on the old Metalshapers Association group (MSA):

WraysAnvil_Profiles.jpg

This was before Joe Andrews first company, CNC Solutions. When I first started making ewheels back in '03, Joe had just started making anvils. His first versions had different profiles and sharp edges. Wray and I worked with Joe on a six profile set that I would adopt as standard with Imperial other than a few months here and there over the years when Joe and I were having issues. Joe refined his profiles to the many sets he provides today. I believe his current products have narrower flats than these.

I post this not to get into a pissing contest over what is better. There is no answer. For everyone who swears by TR, I can find someone who swears by flats and vice versa. USE THE TOOLS AND TECHNIQUES THAT SPEAK TO YOU!
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  #36  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:59 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Quote:
I would adopt as standard with Imperial other than a few months here and there over the years when Joe and I were having issues. Joe refined his profiles to the many sets he provides today. I believe his current products have narrower flats than these.


Kerry
What type of issues were you having with the anvils before Joe refined them?
Peter
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  #37  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tommasini View Post
Kerry
What type of issues were you having with the anvils before Joe refined them?
Peter

I had no issues with the quality of Joe's work after we came to an agreement on his profiles. The issues I was referring to had to do with business disagreements with some things his previous employers did. This caused me to source anvils elsewhere for a while. I finally realized I was cutting off my nose to spite my face and got over it.



I'm aware of no other supplier who comes close to Hoosier Profiles in terms of quality or price. Oh sure, there are cheaper things out there but they are junk.
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  #38  
Old 03-16-2019, 04:59 AM
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having read about anvils with flats, and true radius anvils. i thought i would do some digging of my own.

about a week ago i read of a guy researching a company in the uk which was based not too far from where i was born and raised. i thought he might have some information and maybe a couple of cool old pictures of the workshop. the company in question is 'Rippon Brothers' in Huddersfield, apparently the oldest coach builder in Britian.

i contacted jonathon with my question relating to what lower anvils they had and used way back when the wheel was new technology

i had a reply back, he couldn't give me information that specific but passed on my email to a friend who possibly could. i got an email today from Dave i thought i would pass on....

''Hi Neil,



Jonathan Wood has asked me to reply to your inquiry regarding lower wheels on a wheeling machine. I would be tempted to say that all wheels would have a radius. However, I have original wheels from a Ranalah machine and one with quite a shallow radius has a very small flat in the centre. If the panel hasn’t got much double curvature my preference is to use this wheel because it ultimately leaves less lines in the panel. I will often finish a panel with this wheel and very little pressure leaving a great finish. Of all the wheels I have used that is the only one I have noticed with a flat and it works really well and looks original. Hope that answers your question?



Kind regards

Dave Moroney



D Moroney (Bodywork) Ltd''

not definitive but it could just be that ranalah had made an anvil designed just for finishing a panel?
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  #39  
Old 03-17-2019, 08:07 PM
BTromblay BTromblay is offline
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Hi,

I bought a set of used Hoosier Profile 3"dia x 3"long several years ago. The set has flats on all of the anvils and I thought I would post the width of the flats below.

12" rad, 1"wide flat
8-1/2"rad, 7/8" flat
5"rad, 1/2" flat
3-1/4"rad, 1/4" flat
2-3/8"rad, 1/8"flat

Bill
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  #40  
Old 03-18-2019, 10:13 AM
kjc kjc is offline
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Way back on the internet sites when the true radius vs flats debate was hot, it occurred to me that sets of true radius lowers were being made with the same general radius as the flat sets.

That is: a 12" radius wheel whether it had a flat or not was the lowest crown wheel generally supplied. With Peter's wheel sets specified by him and manufactured by Hoosier - the wheels go 36-24-12 at the low crown end.

I'm far from an expert, but it seems to me that comparing a 36" TR wheel to a 12" with flats, that the contact area for a given pressure is likely to be somewhat more similar than that between a 12" TR vs 12" flat as supplied in the earlier sets.

I wonder if the folks on the various internet sites earlier dislike for TR wheels came from the supplied sets having too high a crown?
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