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  #21  
Old 06-02-2017, 09:39 AM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
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Will, No you don't !

I listened to Kent voice this in person. I interpreted it as a warning or advice, not, principally, a point of pride!

One of those "don't do this at home" tongue in cheeks????

Great weekend is wished for all!

mjb
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  #22  
Old 06-02-2017, 10:24 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by longyard View Post
Congratulations Kent for bringing another one "back alive". Why do you suppose Howard "nibbled" the parts as opposed to cutting them?
Thanks, Wm.

The 16ga steel parts are laid out flat, unfolded, and require smooth cutting around an irregular edge. Once the blanks are cut out they are then bent up and then radius bent and then jigged and gas welded. The big nibblers are ideal because they are smooth, stable and quiet. I intuitively knew the sound this machine would make when I started pulling it down - and I was right on the money - it has a steady musical rhythm when cutting.

Cutting repeated irregular shapes of aluminum or steel requires a particular method. In aviation in the 1930's - 1960's, steel sheet parts were nibbled and aluminum parts routed using hard templets. Aluminum rib blanks were stacked and routed as a stack, using high torque low rpm knee-arm routers. Very little deburring is needed with the routers and nibblers, so time is saved by avoiding secondary operations.

Die-cutting is the option with high production runs - 10,000 parts, or more. For shorter runs, the nibblers and routers did just fine.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2017, 12:03 PM
longyard longyard is offline
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Thanks Kent.
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  #24  
Old 06-02-2017, 09:17 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by RockHillWill View Post
Very, very cool stuff!
The vision of the cast iron welding of the engine block in the snow and hand filing sure has imbedded itself in my memory. I only wish I had a story like that to tell.

Very impressive Kent.
Thanks, Will.
Stories just seem to accumulate - but when things are bleak and just not going well you can always tell yourself, "Self, this is going to make a good story, if we can just get through this icky middle part ...."
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  #25  
Old 06-03-2017, 05:05 AM
RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
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You are right about that Kent.

In my long and eventful life I have experienced many unpleasant occurrences, but have developed the outlook that "one day this will be a good story, just not this day"

Thanks for sharing. Keep posting pics on this project. I am learning 'stuff'.
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  #26  
Old 06-03-2017, 02:43 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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Kent- the r&r is great. Thanks for sharing.

I have a more pedestrian question about the cast iron welding- specifically the peening post weld. What does this do, in terms of action as part of the process?

1.Does each strike create a minute stretch (like hitting metal with an equally hard or harder hammer tends to do in general- basically why so many of us are here...) to counteract the hot metal shrinking as it cools, thus needing to be done until the job has cooled completely?

2. Does it stretch/expand the one part of the job-weld bead or base metal- to chase the other one as it shrinks to avoid a crack?

3. Is it something else entirely?

TIA.
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  #27  
Old 06-03-2017, 06:54 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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I have a more pedestrian question about the cast iron welding- specifically the peening post weld. What does this do, in terms of action as part of the process?
Post weld stress-relief. Like vibratory stress relief, peening breaks the large crystal formation into smaller crystal formations, less prone to thermal stress fractures.

(Sonic/vibratory machines have been developed which are employed during welding of large parts, to prevent distortion in some alloys, like 316 and 321 stainless.)
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  #28  
Old 06-03-2017, 08:15 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Post weld stress-relief. Like vibratory stress relief, peening breaks the large crystal formation into smaller crystal formations, less prone to thermal stress fractures.

(Sonic/vibratory machines have been developed which are employed during welding of large parts, to prevent distortion in some alloys, like 316 and 321 stainless.)
Thank you sir. I wondered about the vibratory aspect but didn't understand enough to phrase the question.

I like smaller, more uniform crystalline structure with no inclusions- that's why Vermont Granite is the best to carve... Anything that makes metal more like good granite is very cool.
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  #29  
Old 06-04-2017, 10:27 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Thank you sir. I wondered about the vibratory aspect but didn't understand enough to phrase the question.

I like smaller, more uniform crystalline structure with no inclusions- that's why Vermont Granite is the best to carve... Anything that makes metal more like good granite is very cool.
Glad to help, Cliff.
"Fine-grained steel" is what lingers yet in my mind when it comes to "edged weapons" ... urk, I know ..... but getting the grain right is the key to flexibility, hardness and strength. Damascus is simply laminated steels, leaving that one layer proud to carry "sharp" requirements. Sliding the silk hanky down the sword and it parts in two by the end - "sharp enuf."

Glue-lams in buildings, carrying loads across curved spans.

Foam is laminated up by trimmers in kustom kars.

Stone dudes doing laminates, yet? I love the various polished slabs - seen across Italy - watched stone layers set the big ones into a whole mirror surface, a day each slab, perfection in each lay of the looong straight edges.... pink marble ... ancient slabs cut long ago, far down in St. Francis' tomb ...
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  #30  
Old 06-05-2017, 06:54 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Glad to help, Cliff.
"Fine-grained steel" is what lingers yet in my mind when it comes to "edged weapons" ... urk, I know ..... but getting the grain right is the key to flexibility, hardness and strength. Damascus is simply laminated steels, leaving that one layer proud to carry "sharp" requirements. Sliding the silk hanky down the sword and it parts in two by the end - "sharp enuf."

Glue-lams in buildings, carrying loads across curved spans.

Foam is laminated up by trimmers in kustom kars.

Stone dudes doing laminates, yet? I love the various polished slabs - seen across Italy - watched stone layers set the big ones into a whole mirror surface, a day each slab, perfection in each lay of the looong straight edges.... pink marble ... ancient slabs cut long ago, far down in St. Francis' tomb ...
Edged tools, like perfect chisels to cut stone? fire steel tools are so different than carbide chisels. Make them small and thin and perfectly tempered. Carbide (or badly heated treated- quickly defined in use) just snaps or crumbles. The nice tools sure makes a person confident.

Stone laminates are continuing as technology progresses, mostly for veneer work in construction. Last year Polycor, a Canadian corporation with advanced slabbing technology, "bought" (actually the hedge fund that owns Polycor) Swenson Granite/Rock of Ages. ROA owns all Vermont Granite plus more operations in NH, Canada and beyond. ROA was the largest USA granite company. Very, very sad to see it sold away, but no one in the family was willing to keep it going for another generation.

Thinner stone, greater yields and less installed weight. The man made backing and bonding epoxy helps this thin stone resist initial breakage. engineered stone products have their place, mostly inside and not outside. Outside, elimination or at least minizing of those joints is where it's at. Whether it's freeze-thaw cycles or flora growth, nothing works harder than a raindrop... Most of my type of work is all about larger, monolithic work. Glue is bad. One big piece of granite. Architectural work in softer stone has some different protocols, but the raindrop still wins.

Gotta wonder about some of the larger "perfect" installed surfaces of old and how many were resolved in situ after installation, like the fantastic walls of Machupichu and such. The pics you and other post showing bared vehicle bodies and discussions of how revelatory the marks can be about the method used to create them are where it's at. People like me do the same thing with old buildings and cemeteries and proper sculpture, studying every chisel and tool mark. There's usually a few minutes of perfect light in any single day to see what we seek. When an enlightened person touches such surfaces in person, it's very special.

I don't have enough days or opportunities to see such things in special Italian alloy bodies & panels in person, so am greatly appreciative whenever such special images and perspectives are shared here. It's the best way to learn. Keep it coming, please.
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