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  #1631  
Old 10-30-2020, 06:52 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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Left side is done. Same process as the upper piece. The lower pictures are with the OEM reveal molding taped in place. The fit is pretty good but needs a little adjusting. I'll do that after I make the right side molding.


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Right side is done. Good snug fit. I started polishing the reveal molding for this side but didn't get it finished yet. I'll do that next and check the fit. Then I need to remove the windshield to install the clips that will hold them in.


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  #1632  
Old 12-05-2020, 11:20 PM
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I've been busy with a lot of small projects lately. I wanted to change the engine bay side closure panels. Although the ABS is heat resistant, these side panels set right over the exhaust manifolds and might not be up to the heat generated. I decided to make them from carbon fiber. I didn't get many pictures along the way.
I started with a sheet of aluminum to make the "mold" and taped out the edges and openings with masking tape. After the panel is finished, the panel will be trimmed along the tape lines. (This would produce a much smoother finish if it was done on a piece of glass, but I didn't have one large enough). I laid up 2 layers of carbon fiber. The weave is loose and you would be able to see through just one layer. After the two layers of carbon fiber I added a layer of fiberglass cloth. It adds a little thickness at a much lower cost and once it's saturated with resin it goes clear.
These are cosmetic pieces, not structural. I don't recommend this method for structural parts. Structural c/f parts should be made in a pressure mold or with a vacuum bag system. The c/f mat doesn't wet out as readily as fiberglass and you can get voids or dry areas of cloth that have not soaked up resin. Also, I just used some fiberglass resin that I had on the shelf. C/F should be done with epoxy resin. That being said, what I've done here should suffice for the application.
The Clecos are holding a 1/2" aluminum strip that will form an edge along the side of the engine. Regular automotive paste wax before laminating and go for it. Again, I wouldn't trust this method for a load bearing part but for cosmetic parts it's fine. These will be clear coated for a better shine and depth which might not have been necessary if I laid them up on a piece of glass.


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I've also been tying in some of the wiring so I can energize the electrical system without setting a zillion trouble codes. I started on the air bag system and then the doors. I had to extend wires for a couple systems. Because of the suicide doors, the harness enters the door from the rear rather than the front so some wires had to be lengthened. I got all that routed and tied down.


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I'm also starting on the prototype for the suicide door locks. I know there are ready made units available but they are all too short. I don't want any electrically operated safety device for door locks. I want manual and mechanical operation, which means that the actuator needs to be set back about 15" from the front of the door jamb in order to be in an accessible spot on the interior trim panel.
When I fabricate a part like this I make it rather crude. My main focus is on getting mounting locations, function, clearance of any other hardware in proximity, etc. Just make it work, or see if it will work. Once I have a functioning part I'll clean it up; fewer parts, less bulky, smoother operation, or make any functional changes needed.
The picture below is the beginning of that process. It is long enough to make one for both doors. This will operate by a lever mounted on a pivot rod rotated from inside the car. The lever will have a tension spring mounted on the end and attached to the sliding lock rod. The lever will create an over-center condition when rotated by hand from inside the car sliding the lock rod forward or backward.
Probably not a good verbal description, so I'll post the results when they're done.


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Back to the drawing board. My wife came out in the garage today to visit and talk. (Rare) I don't remember the bulk of the conversation but the jist of it was You're not going to use those ugly a$$ vent windows are you? Then there were words like bulky, clumsy, band aid, intrusive, etc.. OK, OK, I get it. There was also a comment like You stuffed a whole CTS in this barge and are baffled by a couple pieces of glass?
If I was loving the vent windows I would have objected to the criticism, but I'm not so I didn't. Couldn't. I agree with her.The vertical run channel destroys the coordinated swept angles all over this car. The front wheel openings, the A pillars, the rake of the back of the roof, the rear bumper and tail lights, etc.
Soooo..... When I was originally experimenting with the windows and regulators it was very early on in the build. I was still roughing everything in. I did a quick mock up and wasn't convinced that I could get everything to work so I changed course. I shouldn't have given up so easily. I have stayed as close to the original concept as possible all along. These vent windows were a thorn in my claw since day one and I never really accepted them in my mind.

It's not like the windows were an afterthought. I curved the back edge of the doors forward when I was doing the sheet metal work. I just might not have gone forward quite enough.
I'm going to give it one more shot. I have been getting the electrical system wrapped up so I can hook up the power windows and test run them with the wooden templates. I've got to get this figured out. I never really wanted to have vent windows on this car. I look back at Ray's renderings and they are so clean and coordinated. I'm glad I kept the original posts, run channels, and window template. These vent windows just destroy the overall look. They've gotta go.


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Last edited by Jack 1957; 12-06-2020 at 10:18 AM.
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  #1633  
Old 12-06-2020, 04:21 AM
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The only redos I have done is to get back to the original plan. Thought it was too hard or too much extra work at the time, but later on I realised it is more important to stay true.
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  #1634  
Old 12-06-2020, 11:20 AM
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Jack
I agree with you the wing vents should be eliminated!

First glance says to me that the glass will need to rotate in order to go down.
The back will need to drop first, to rotate the glass.
No ideas as to how to make that happen.
Hope you can work it out.
Steve
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  #1635  
Old 12-06-2020, 11:48 AM
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Hey Jack, Your wife is right, a couple pieces of glass is nothing from everything else you have done in this build. The knowledge and skillset u have is quite inspiring, you will figure it out.Keep up the great work!! and thanks for sharing.
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  #1636  
Old 12-06-2020, 01:18 PM
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This should be cake for you to figure out. You always find a way.
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my project:
http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=154
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  #1637  
Old 12-06-2020, 09:30 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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First, thanks for the input on potential solutions posted and in PMs.There are various methods that OEMs have employed to make this window operate. Some won't work, some would but are complex and would require eliminating the CTS regulator, which I can't do. What it comes down to is Occam's Razor; the simplest solution is usually the right one.
I started today by tightening everything up. As I stated in my last post, I set this window system up when everything was being roughed in and measurements were still kind of loose. As I started the finish work, things began to come into their final finished size and shape. When I returned to working on the windows, the template wouldn't work so in frustration I just thought I'd have to use vent windows and have the vertical run channel solve the problem.

Last night I realized that I had never fine tuned the original door posts and window template. This morning I hit it in attack mode. (Nobody gets out alive until this problem is solved). Now that the doors are hung and properly aligned, I mounted the door post/run channel and made a new and more accurate template for the side glass.
Holding my breath and slipping the template into the front run channel I slid the template downward until the top of the template was down to the belt molding, then a couple inches below the belt molding! SUCCESS! I still have to make and mount the rear run channel and regulator assembly, but at least now I know that it will work.
I put a spring clamp on the template to hold it in the up position, stood back and took a look and couldn't help smiling. Welcome back single side glass. Soooo much cleaner looking, and I'm back on track with the renderings.
I need to set the roof back on the car so I can check the seal along the upper edge of the glass. There's a little wiggle room on that, so I'm not too concerned about it. I just need to see if I have the doorposts mounted at the right height.

The picture below is where I'm at right now. The similar picture in the previous post is where I was yesterday. The difference is, this version works.


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Last edited by Jack 1957; 12-06-2020 at 09:36 PM.
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  #1638  
Old 12-06-2020, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hamilton View Post
Jack
I agree with you the wing vents should be eliminated!

First glance says to me that the glass will need to rotate in order to go down.
The back will need to drop first, to rotate the glass.
No ideas as to how to make that happen.
Hope you can work it out.
Steve

There is a method that would do that. A window regulator that has been used since the 50's. Best way I can describe the action would be to imagine holding a pair of scissors pointed end up. Open the scissors and cut half of one blade off. As you open and close the scissors the tip of the long blade travels further than the tip of the short blade even tough both blades are opening at the same rate. BUT, at the full open position, both blade tips are ate the same level. To adjust what level you want in the open at closed position, just rotate the scissors from the 12 o'clock position to 1 o'clock or 2 o'clock, etc..
For my application, I can't remove the original regulator. The CTS was a hardtop. No frames around the door glass. There is a processor built into the regulator motor that, when you activate the door handle to get in, the processor drops the window about 1 inch so the window clears the roof when the door opens. The window stays in that position until the door is closed, then pops back up to full closed position resting on the weather seals.
Thanks for the input anyways but I think I've got a handle on this now.
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Last edited by Jack 1957; 12-06-2020 at 10:02 PM.
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  #1639  
Old 12-10-2020, 11:52 PM
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Back to the side glass. I made a template and four blanks for a pair of clamp style rear track bracket. These will go on the bottom edge of the glass near the back and eliminate the need for a run channel back there. One on each window. I have enough room to roll the windows down but not enough room to use a run channel at the back edge of the glass. These will mount about 3" forward of the back edge.



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Next, I tipped the flanges on all four parts and bent a step into two of them. This will allow the bracket to set flush on the inboard side. One flat bracket and one stepped bracket per window. I allowed clearance for one layer of double sided tape. There will actually be two layers, one on each half, (.020" each layer) but I want this to apply some pressure when it's tightened down.


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I applied a coat of tape primer to the areas that will get double sided tape. As long as the clamping pressure remains , the bond on this tape is almost impossible to break in shear. The foam itself will fail before the adhesive. I made the contact area round for a reason. There will be pressure in various directions during use trying to bent, twist, push, pull, etc. Any bracket with corners on it would have focal points at those corners and increase the chances of cracking the glass. Also the foam tape helps as a shock absorber to help avoid the same potential problem.


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I will be using a slotted track and skid pad for this. I ordered a piece of 1" x 1/2" rectangular tube. When it gets here I'll cut a slot down the full length on the 1" side. These nylon skid pads will be attached to the bottom of the brackets and will slide up and down inside the slotted track with the movement of the window. I am using skid pads rather than nylon wheels because the nylon wheels used in window regulator tracks are only designed to take load in one direction. The direction of rotation. The wheels are purposely mounted loosely to avoid freezing up over time. In this application I need fairly tight control in all directions.

What I've done to tighten this action up is the use of skid pads rather than wheels and the way they are mounted. The pads will be bolted to the window brackets with about 1/2" clearance from pad to bracket. I have trimmed the length of a couple small springs that will go on the bolt holding this all together. The spring will allow 1/4" of movement until it fully compresses and binds.

This gives me a tolerance when I mount the regulator, front run channel and rear track of 1/4". If I can maintain that during installation there should be no binding or cracking the glass no matter if the window is up or down or anywhere in between.
This is how the bracket will be positioned on the glass. I have to mock up the regulator and make sure the glass clamps on it don't interfere with these brackets. That will probably be my next challenge.


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I took a break from the windows and started to finish off the engine closure panels. I wet sanded with 600# and used a high build pour on Epoxy clear. I don't want to spray in the garage anymore if I can avoid it. You have to make sure the part is level by shimming as necessary. You could just let it drip off the sides and it would still be thick and deep, but I just used some masking tape along the edges to keep the mess down. This is about 1/8" thick but it looks a mile deep. High clarity, nice shine, and deep. One down, one to go. I'll do the other one in a day or two.


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Last edited by Jack 1957; 12-11-2020 at 12:17 AM.
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  #1640  
Old 12-13-2020, 05:46 PM
Hotflint Hotflint is offline
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I spent a few days following this thread. I was absolutely hooked from page 1. Thank you for breaking everything down as well as you did. I have learned a lot and I truly appreciate it.
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