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  #81  
Old 03-06-2015, 03:27 PM
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heinke heinke is offline
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Default Fender/wheel liners continued…

Ok…so no opinions voiced. That seems rare on this forum so maybe nobody is following the story?

I was hoping to get some experience based feedback but decided to soldier on and figure it out by trial and error. I scrounged up some scrap and tried O/A welding it at a 90 degree angle to see how easy/hard it would be.



At first (bottom in picture), I tried it with both pieces being .040. I could do it but I found it easy to blow through and thus had to go real slow. Next (at top in picture), I tried with a mix of .040 and .050. To simulate the flange, the .050 is 1” wide. This combination was easier to weld than the other but still time consuming to tack and then weld. From the test pieces, penetration was good and the welded on flange added quite a bit of rigidity.

I then tried welding on about 12” of flange on the liner itself. Went OK (will post pic when I have one) but still took a lot longer to weld up than I’d like. I’m thinking about trying aluminum braze (TM Tech variety) and seeing how it goes. I’m thinking the braze process will go faster and lower heat will anneal the metal less if at all.

Kent: if you see this and want to offer up an opinion, I’d appreciate it.
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  #82  
Old 03-06-2015, 04:51 PM
gonejunking gonejunking is offline
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If you form the edge in the annealed state, it will slowly harden back to the pre annealed state. I would just turn the flange in the annealed state and leave it.
Just my 2c worth
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  #83  
Old 03-07-2015, 09:18 AM
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Default C5 gto

Nice work Joel. Thanks for posting.
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  #84  
Old 03-07-2015, 10:30 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heinke View Post
Kent: if you see this and want to offer up an opinion, I’d appreciate it.
Hi Joel,
Sorry, I was not following past a point some months back - something about the thread format slithering diagonally off my view that makes it impossible for me to see below a certain point, no matter how I work my screen view .... sigh.

Welding a 90 intersection is not a good thing ... best to bend one side, trim to even 3-4mm - 1/8 - and then weld on the flat. Brazing, yes, but you are only about 10C -50F below melting point of alloy, so the HAZ will be almost as wide - and you will need to jig the two so you can make the braze joint even down the length. EZ to jig tho - sq tube goes the length, do a heavy grind-off on one corner, making a 4mm -1/8 flat and bump that against your corner joint to braze. Heat soak compensated by torch flame size - practice on one first.
( I love your work. Ridden in fully-restored GTO, at speed on track. Have some experience doing the work, and much on GTB6C and GTB4, so I know what you are going through... nice work!)
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  #85  
Old 03-07-2015, 11:00 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Joel,
Where are you in your wheelhouse liners build?
I have a new light planisher motor and die setup you might like to road test?
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  #86  
Old 03-08-2015, 09:21 PM
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Nice progress Joel. Your Dash and Gauges turned out beautiful.
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  #87  
Old 03-09-2015, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Joel,
Where are you in your wheelhouse liners build?
I have a new light planisher motor and die setup you might like to road test?
I am 3/4s through the basic shaping/joining on the wheel liners. In other words, I have one more that hasn't been started yet, drivers side rear. The 1st was passenger side rear done with .050 3003. 2nd was passenger side front done with .040 3003. Both these were shaped with hammer, sand bag and English wheel. While that worked fine, it took quite a bit of time to shape them.

The 3rd liner, drivers front, is also in .040 3003 and I shaped this one with my newly completed power hammer. I use the #2 motor with air pressure fairly low. I do have to be careful with the air pressure as this motor can overpower .040 especially where annealed from welding. The shaping on the power hammer goes much faster than hammer/bag and welding is where I'm spending relatively more time now.

How does your new planisher motor and dies differ from what I've got (#2, #3 motors and "full" die set)?
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  #88  
Old 03-10-2015, 09:09 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by heinke View Post
How does your new planisher motor and dies differ from what I've got (#2, #3 motors and "full" die set)?
Joel, The set is completely different, designed only for smoothing .032 to .050 material. "Sensitive" dies are a new twist. You'll see when you get the Beta "loaner" test set in a few days. I made up 6 sets and sent the first one out to great reviews last week, from an .050 aluminum racing job. Keep your eyes open for the brown truck approaching.

(I sure like your interior work.)
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  #89  
Old 03-10-2015, 02:27 PM
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Default Fender/wheel liners continued… flange gives arrangement

The flange on the fender liner edge was added in 4 segments. The 1st was O/A welded on and the next 3 were joined with “Aero Braze” and then flange segments welded together.



From the joining process perspective, brazing went much faster than welding. This was my first time brazing aluminum and there was a key “Ah Ha” moment. You should heat soak the piece and then brazing goes much quicker. Once I got a feel for the heat soak, I could complete the braze (with good penetration) without melting the edges on the .040.



The flange runs about 60 degree angle on the front and back. It is laid over right next to the base metal on the top to clear the fender itself.



WOW!! What a difference in the rigidity of the fender liner after adding the flange. It actually stays in arrangement now (without flopping around) when holding it in your hands. Prior to having the flange, it would not stay in any sort of arrangement unless on the buck or in place on the car.

@Kent: what’s the recommended procedure on braze flux cleanup? I can’t get to the flange backside in the top area. The flux says it’s corrosive, can it be neutralized via flushing?
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  #90  
Old 03-11-2015, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heinke View Post
The flange on the fender liner edge was added in 4 segments.
@Kent: what’s the recommended procedure on braze flux cleanup? I can’t get to the flange backside in the top area. The flux says it’s corrosive, can it be neutralized via flushing?
If you used the rod and flux combo, then hot water or steam will get it, though I do use the MFR phosphoric as a wash inside tanks - pump sprayer? - but it may brighten the aluminum if left on too long...

The flux-core braze is non-corrosive, so I wipe the finished joint with the MFR and then rinse with any water.
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