All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > Welding Sheet Metal
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-25-2019, 08:08 PM
skintkarter skintkarter is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Nov. 2018
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 639
Default First attempt at gas welding aluminium

Well I finally had my head in the right space I thought to pick up the torch and try some O/A welding of aluminium.

Fluxed the top side of the join with the flux mixed to a thin paste with Isopropyl Alcohol. Tacked the coupons together just with the torch, cleaned and tapped flat on the stump.

Re-cleaned everything and re fluxed (just the top surface of the join). Obviously some tension in the panel, as the start of the weld began to crack behind me - and perhaps not enough pre-heat as with tig cracking. Possible issue also with starting the weld in front of the first tack.

Material is 1.6mm 5005 and filler rod is a sliver cut from the edge of the sheet.

Got it sort of welded together, but very inconsistent penetration on the back of the weld. Did all crush just about flat in the Wheel.

What I'm not really seeing though is an actual puddle, or much if any 'flare' from the flux. It's more a sagging of the surface.

From what I've seen in a couple of videos by the experts, the flux seems very much more fluid when heated. Should I be seeing something more in terms of the flux?

At this stage to have a play, I've just grabbed locally available flux from one of the major welding suppliers.

Appreciate any guidance. Thanks.

20190526_115535.jpg

20190526_120752.jpg

20190526_121401.jpg

20190526_123352.jpg
__________________
Richard
"I know nothing. I from Barcelona" (Manuel - Fawlty Towers)
Link to our racecar project https://www.facebook.com/pages/Elan-...ab=public&view
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-25-2019, 08:17 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 & April '16
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skintkarter View Post
Well I finally had my head in the right space I thought to pick up the torch and try some O/A welding of aluminium.

Fluxed the top side of the join with the flux mixed to a thin paste with Isopropyl Alcohol. Tacked the coupons together just with the torch, cleaned and tapped flat on the stump.

Re-cleaned everything and re fluxed (just the top surface of the join). Obviously some tension in the panel, as the start of the weld began to crack behind me - and perhaps not enough pre-heat as with tig cracking. Possible issue also with starting the weld in front of the first tack.

Material is 1.6mm 5005 and filler rod is a sliver cut from the edge of the sheet.

Got it sort of welded together, but very inconsistent penetration on the back of the weld. Did all crush just about flat in the Wheel.

What I'm not really seeing though is an actual puddle, or much if any 'flare' from the flux. It's more a sagging of the surface.

From what I've seen in a couple of videos by the experts, the flux seems very much more fluid when heated. Should I be seeing something more in terms of the flux?

At this stage to have a play, I've just grabbed locally available flux from one of the major welding suppliers.

Appreciate any guidance. Thanks.

Attachment 52939

Attachment 52940

Attachment 52941

Attachment 52942

Okay, good start.
Now, keeping all elements the same, mix a fresh batch of flux with clean spring water - like a bottle from the store. (Not distilled.) (Not tap water.)
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-25-2019, 09:18 PM
skintkarter skintkarter is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Nov. 2018
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Okay, good start.
Now, keeping all elements the same, mix a fresh batch of flux with clean spring water - like a bottle from the store. (Not distilled.) (Not tap water.)
Many thanks Kent. I've got some fancy dinner party carbonated spring water here, so will give that at try and if not just head down to the gas station and pick up some still water. Appreciate the prompt help from the master!
__________________
Richard
"I know nothing. I from Barcelona" (Manuel - Fawlty Towers)
Link to our racecar project https://www.facebook.com/pages/Elan-...ab=public&view
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-25-2019, 10:13 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 & April '16
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skintkarter View Post
Many thanks Kent. I've got some fancy dinner party carbonated spring water here, so will give that at try and if not just head down to the gas station and pick up some still water. Appreciate the prompt help from the master!

Carbonation makes no difference - from many tests I've done across the US.
(Pellegrino/Gerolsteiner also make good espresso.)
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-26-2019, 02:05 AM
skintkarter skintkarter is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Nov. 2018
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Carbonation makes no difference - from many tests I've done across the US.
(Pellegrino/Gerolsteiner also make good espresso.)
Thanks Kent. A little better, but I need to play with the consistency of the flux to get proper coverage without it breaking the film and balling up - couple of attempts with it too thin I think.

Attempt below is with carbonated spring water, top and bottom of the coupon fluxed, as well as the rod. Only get brief flashes of molten metal as I scratch the puddle with the filler rod. Some penetration, but a bit inconsistent and too much filler on the top.

Think I need a bit more heat, move a little faster and perhaps some better flux.

20190526_190417.jpg

20190526_190423.jpg

Poor workman always blames the tools of course!

I've just ordered some of your super duper flux and the DVD Kent.

Hopefully it will be just like Tom and Jerry and the Rachmaninoff piano concerto deal.
__________________
Richard
"I know nothing. I from Barcelona" (Manuel - Fawlty Towers)
Link to our racecar project https://www.facebook.com/pages/Elan-...ab=public&view
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-26-2019, 04:11 AM
neilb's Avatar
neilb neilb is offline
MetalShaper of the Month March 2019
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne OZ
Posts: 672
Default

you'll get there richard, persistence pays off
__________________
Neil
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-26-2019, 05:29 AM
skintkarter skintkarter is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Nov. 2018
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilb View Post
you'll get there richard, persistence pays off
Bloody Yorkshiremen...

Thanks Neil. Reading a bit more, I think I need to move up from a CIG #8 and get more heat with a softer flame. I'll have a look at the US/UK sizing charts. I'm not wearing jandals, so what can possibly go wrong
__________________
Richard
"I know nothing. I from Barcelona" (Manuel - Fawlty Towers)
Link to our racecar project https://www.facebook.com/pages/Elan-...ab=public&view
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-26-2019, 02:43 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 & April '16
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skintkarter View Post
Thanks Kent. A little better, but I need to play with the consistency of the flux to get proper coverage without it breaking the film and balling up - couple of attempts with it too thin I think.

Attempt below is with carbonated spring water, top and bottom of the coupon fluxed, as well as the rod. Only get brief flashes of molten metal as I scratch the puddle with the filler rod. Some penetration, but a bit inconsistent and too much filler on the top.

Think I need a bit more heat, move a little faster and perhaps some better flux.

Attachment 52945

Attachment 52946

Poor workman always blames the tools of course!

I've just ordered some of your super duper flux and the DVD Kent.

Hopefully it will be just like Tom and Jerry and the Rachmaninoff piano concerto deal.

Set the flame "fat" and just below a growl. Metal thickness = tip orifice.
Cone length = heat, so set cone length to 2 or 3 metal thicknesses.

Half a cone of feather, for the excess acet. This can vary as part of your own "chemisty adjustment."

And Thicken the flux - creamy not milky.
Everything is measurable with this.
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-26-2019, 07:17 PM
skintkarter skintkarter is offline
MetalShaper of the Month Nov. 2018
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Set the flame "fat" and just below a growl. Metal thickness = tip orifice.
Cone length = heat, so set cone length to 2 or 3 metal thicknesses.

Half a cone of feather, for the excess acet. This can vary as part of your own "chemisty adjustment."

And Thicken the flux - creamy not milky.
Everything is measurable with this.
Thanks Kent. I've just bought some different flux to play with whilst I wait for yours to arrive. Have also come to the conclusion that I don't have enough heat. Have been using an #8 tip (0.8mm) so by your recommendations Kent, I need to be up around a #12 or even a #16. for the 16swg I'm trying to glue. I'll make sure I have appropriate footwear on and have another play this afternoon.
__________________
Richard
"I know nothing. I from Barcelona" (Manuel - Fawlty Towers)
Link to our racecar project https://www.facebook.com/pages/Elan-...ab=public&view
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-26-2019, 11:33 PM
fciron fciron is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Louisville, KY, USA
Posts: 70
Default

In my relatively recent experience you don't see a nice shiny puddle the way you do with steel. So, don't worry about that.

The expensive blue filters do make it easier to see what's going on. I thought I was seeing just fine through my green shade five until I tried one of the aluminum welding filters and it's a huge difference. You'll see the puddle then.

I agree thevlack of penetration sounds like not enough heat I tilt the torch more when welding aluminum than for steel, because that's what I was taught and it seems to work. I know that the higher conductivity of aluminum means it often needs more heat than the low temperatures involved suggest. I think aiming the flame more in the direction of travel spreads the heat over a larger area, countering the conductive loss without burning through right under the torch. (Hopefully. ;-) )
__________________
Lewis Meyer
Falls City Ironworks
Louisville, KY
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.