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Old 05-19-2019, 02:09 PM
Reno Reno is offline
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Default Leading

I've been through this forum and haven't found much mention of leading for final shaping. I was a little too aggressive grinding the first welds on the Willys body and I'm not sure I can raise them enough to clean them up.
What are the thoughts, and any preference between lead and lead free filling?
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:51 PM
billfunk29 billfunk29 is offline
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Default Lead

I have used both old school lead and the leadfree stuff from Eastwood. To be honest, I use plastic now. For these reasons:
The flux used with lead needs to be completely removed or you will have paint problems.
If you need to back up and reweld something you have to remove the lead, all of it near the weld.
Lead dust can kill you.


That said, if you want to learn it, the lead-free works OK and you can focus your energy on getting things clean instead of focusing on staying alive.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:24 PM
Metal1 Metal1 is offline
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Do you use polyester body filler on overlaps that are recessed like the quarter to roof areas on most 60ís to 80ís cars that are usually factory lead type filled? If you do how did it hold up? What was the prep work? Did you weld the seam solid first? Overlap and weld on another piece to fill some of the void? Iíve been looking for a good answer to this for while. Most of the time when the seams get warm especially in the sun they show up with most fillers even with lead, and even on untouched factory built cars.
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:55 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Default Autobody soldering (lead work)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno View Post
I've been through this forum and haven't found much mention of leading for final shaping. I was a little too aggressive grinding the first welds on the Willys body and I'm not sure I can raise them enough to clean them up.
What are the thoughts, and any preference between lead and lead free filling?

I've done a fair amount of autobody "lead work" but only with the old 30-70 or 40-60. Even now I have a Brents gun and 50lbs of 30-70 3/8" tri-bar.
I've never used the "lead-free."
I always do a hot wipe with a clean rag after tinning, and I've used a variety of tinning salts, fluxes, and compounds. A neutralizing washover after the hot wipe is mandatory.

After paddling out the lead and filing I do not sand.
After filing I use a metal prep as a final wash and I watch for any weeping from pinholes.
I made a film about this a long time ago, but Eastwood took over the market and so they are about the only ones supplying and informing, that I am aware of.
Ron Naida made a few very good posts about tinning steel here on this forum.
I was very aware of the So Cal metal guys having doubts about lead work at the end of the 1980's, about the time CadZilla was being finished up. (same doubts at that time also for gas welding aluminum) ...
Simply stated, those current craftsmen had gotten away from the guidance of the senior skilled craftsmen, and the good old solid techniques were being diffused, confused, or forgotten entirely. To wit: It took a few long years, but CadZilla eventually burped out the acid residues, though that gorgeous paint. Funny thing, millions of Detroit autos came out with lead-filled seams from 1930 to 1980-something - with zero issues from residues through the paint.


It's a lot like paint - get the routine down, and get the chemistry down - or face the consequences.
Plastic filler is easy by comparison, but has shrinkage and strength issues.


Some small areas can be done with a soldering iron - clean, tin, wipe, neutralize, solder, and file off and metal prep.
(end)
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:49 AM
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Steve Hamilton Steve Hamilton is offline
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Thanks Kent for the detailed explanation!

I have used that process with good results.

Steve
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:46 AM
billfunk29 billfunk29 is offline
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Default lead vs plastic

Dan
Do you use polyester body filler on overlaps that are recessed like the quarter to roof areas on most 60’s to 80’s cars that are usually factory lead type filled? If you do how did it hold up? What was the prep work? Did you weld the seam solid first? Overlap and weld on another piece to fill some of the void? I’ve been looking for a good answer to this for while. Most of the time when the seams get warm especially in the sun they show up with most fillers even with lead, and even on untouched factory built cars.
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I am a hobbyest,, so I get to pick and chose my work. As a pro you have to do what the customer pays for. I totally avoid working on factory leaded seams. I cut the whole thing our and rebuild with butt welds. I used the same process on both lead and lead-free with similar results. For plastic: I use polyester up to 1/16" thick. Marine epoxy fairing compound is used in the rare event I go thicker. Epoxy sticks better, absorbs less water, but is a bugger to sand. Oh, and it is expensive. Looks like I royally screwed up the "Quote thing"
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:58 AM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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Iím not a big Eastwood fan but Winfield has certainly paid his dues so this is worth watching . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87fuTnBS2bE&t=107s
~ John Buchtenkirch>>
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:25 AM
Reno Reno is offline
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Thanks everyone. That is good information Kent. Paint prep and cleanliness is one of my weak areas. More of a wrench and shape mentality, so some test samples and experiments seem like time well spent before working on the car.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:35 AM
Reno Reno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Buchtenkirch View Post
Iím not a big Eastwood fan but Winfield has certainly paid his dues so this is worth watching . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87fuTnBS2bE&t=107s
~ John Buchtenkirch>>
I watched that and even after finishing he mentioned plastic filler for the pinholes. Just spitballing, but as Kent mentioned a soldering iron might be the tool to fill the small imperfections.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:59 AM
Metal1 Metal1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
I've done a fair amount of autobody "lead work" but only with the old 30-70 or 40-60. Even now I have a Brents gun and 50lbs of 30-70 3/8" tri-bar.
I've never used the "lead-free."
I always do a hot wipe with a clean rag after tinning, and I've used a variety of tinning salts, fluxes, and compounds. A neutralizing washover after the hot wipe is mandatory.

After paddling out the lead and filing I do not sand.
After filing I use a metal prep as a final wash and I watch for any weeping from pinholes.
I made a film about this a long time ago, but Eastwood took over the market and so they are about the only ones supplying and informing, that I am aware of.
Ron Naida made a few very good posts about tinning steel here on this forum.
I was very aware of the So Cal metal guys having doubts about lead work at the end of the 1980's, about the time CadZilla was being finished up. (same doubts at that time also for gas welding aluminum) ...
Simply stated, those current craftsmen had gotten away from the guidance of the senior skilled craftsmen, and the good old solid techniques were being diffused, confused, or forgotten entirely. To wit: It took a few long years, but CadZilla eventually burped out the acid residues, though that gorgeous paint. Funny thing, millions of Detroit autos came out with lead-filled seams from 1930 to 1980-something - with zero issues from residues through the paint.


It's a lot like paint - get the routine down, and get the chemistry down - or face the consequences.
Plastic filler is easy by comparison, but has shrinkage and strength issues.


Some small areas can be done with a soldering iron - clean, tin, wipe, neutralize, solder, and file off and metal prep.
(end)
Thanks for this bit of info. Kent itís very helpful. I have purchased your body solder video and itís a very resourceful tool I would highly recommend it to anyone interested in this thread.
You say you neutralize after the hot wipe but before applying the solder? With what?
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