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  #11  
Old 03-04-2015, 06:31 AM
keith keith is offline
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That is awesome. Thanks.

Keith
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  #12  
Old 03-04-2015, 06:47 AM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Nice job Kent as always
Copper and Brass are my favourite metals
Peter
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Metalshaping tools and dvds
www.handbuilt.net.au

Metalshaping clip on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh91hodPg

Making Monaro Quarter panel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2015, 12:02 PM
custommetal custommetal is offline
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Kent, thanx for taking the time to photograph and post. I always learn something different.

And if you are ever looking for any info on anything, check out this web site. It is enormous and has info on everything. Warning, you may spend a lot of time here!
http://martindalecenter.com

Goerge
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If you are afraid to fail, you will never learn
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  #14  
Old 03-05-2015, 01:32 PM
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Steve Hamilton Steve Hamilton is offline
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Thank Kent
You always make the challenging project look so easy!

Steve
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  #15  
Old 03-05-2015, 02:20 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Default Thank you, guys.

Keith,
Thank you - and you are very welcome.

Peter,
Thank you - and I am also fond of both copper and some bronze alloys, too!
(I admit to having taken some time to figure out how to hammer the copper successfully after welding !! ... )

George,
You are very welcome. And thank you very much for Mr. Martindale's comprehensive comprehensions!

Steve,
Thank you. ( I am hiding my perspirations effectively ... )
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"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
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  #16  
Old 03-05-2015, 03:09 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Default On to the finish !!

Soldering the edges involves first cleaning off any stray air tool oils (91% isopropyl is effective, cheap, available, and nontoxic).
I chose 3.5% Ag solder for this job, as it is both strong and durable. I use the fluid flux provided with it. I apply the flux with a little brush, going over the area I will tin. I then heat the area with whatever - electric iron, gasiron, or gastorch - while applying the solder at a minimum.
030 tin surface_flux and solder first.jpg

After adding minimal solder to the complete edge, I go all around again, heating and also brushing with a ss toothbrush to spread out the solder into a thin film - tinning the whole surface completely.
031 solder brushed hot to complete tinning process.jpg

I then re-attach the assy to the box base and cleco it - re-drilling the holes that have filled in with the tinning process. Then I rivet the works complete, and turn it upside down to work under it. To hold it upside down, I cut a 16" plywood square and then a 10inch round hole in that, and placed it over an empty 5gal plastic bucket, and parked Mr. Conehead upside down in the hole. Now I can turn the inside flange over into the conic, and then solder the whole seam complete.
032 tapping flange over.jpg
034 stiffening flange turned complete.jpg

Adding this flange was because the design called for an open interior. Losing the center meant losing the support of the complete surface the base provided. What to do to recover that? Add geometry.

I cut the circumference of the interior hole large by .5" and that left enough to turn over easily by hand, but not so much that I rumpled what was visible outside.

Turning the flange tight against the conic surface gave - along with the solder - a very strong unit.
035 close up of turned inside flange.jpg

After soldering the whole seam in the upside down mode, I also soldered the cone to the bowl - going very gently so not to slop melty solder over the outside surface. Oh well, nice wishful thinking! So, I hot-wiped all the drips and goofs and had a nice job, anyway. Scorched shop towels are no biggie, as long as they are clean and oil-free!

Then, upright the assy and the hose-off off makes a big mess of the nice copper. I hose it good. Then I dry off with towels because air dry makes a bad tarnish and more work. I clean all surfaces with copper cleaner, then wax complete for outdoor use.
036 soldered_cleaned_waxed_ready for rooftop.jpg

Final notes:
Cliffrod asked for the reverse demo, so I made a conic reverse, but note that it is an Enclosed Shape and not an Open shape. There is a difference in some ways, one being that when I turned over both the top (shrinking) and the bottom (stretching) the reverse diminished. Yes, it's not your eyes...
Lesson: turning the edge on a reverse will subtract some of it. This is tricky, because I wanted the lower edge "tight" so it was left "shrunk" a bit after stretching the flange out - a looser flange would otherwise enhance the reverse - see? It is a tossup, but I like tighter on an assy like this.

Second, how I sequence together the sections comes from long experience - dong brass lamps, tanks, rad shells, trim and etc. ornaments. I often don't even think - it is so automatic.
But so, for the ring to the base: I tinned it, riveted it, and turned the edge, and then soldered because I would lock myself "hard" going any other way - no choice, no option. Turning the flange was delicate but firm taps.

For the bowl to the ring: I fit, drilled cleco'd, then trimmed edges and flanged edges because of the solid support the 2-piece assy gave my hands. I then separated, tinned, cleco'd and Soldered because I don't trust a reverse and hollow going together without unpredictable departures. I can uncleco easier than unriveting if a problem arises? Yes, try to weld a reverse to a hollow sometime, to see how far two opposite shapes can more away! Yes, I solder with clecos in place. Sometimes they depart, but mostly we stay friends - after a little cleanup in water and then in the Trizol penetrating oil. Then I riveted the solder seam. Ag solder is tough stuff, so I rely on it. (Note: this is not Ag braze, at the higher temps. Soft solder.)

I guess that does it. Now it goes up on top of a new house, someplace. Hope this little bit helps ....
Success and joy,
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"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.

Last edited by crystallographic; 03-05-2015 at 03:22 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-06-2015, 08:03 PM
sblack sblack is offline
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Awesome work, very educational. Thank you
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2015, 12:05 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sblack View Post
Awesome work, very educational. Thank you
Good to hear, Scott. Thank you.

By the way, I'm setting up a Flow Forming thread, and want to use your image of the work you did making Otto's 1942 Tigermoth fairings.
Tiger Moth fairings made by Scott copy.jpg

You had an excellent approach to making these, Scott.
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"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.

Last edited by crystallographic; 03-08-2015 at 12:19 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2015, 09:15 PM
Oldnek Oldnek is offline
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At first I thought you were going to make a old fashioned Diving Helmet.
I started to get excited!
Nice work and great explanation of the processes, glad it's a sticky.

Cheers John
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  #20  
Old 03-10-2015, 09:14 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldnek View Post
At first I thought you were going to make a old fashioned Diving Helmet.
I started to get excited!
Nice work and great explanation of the processes, glad it's a sticky.

Cheers John
Thanks John. (No time to make a dive helm yet - I've got two more to iron out yet. )
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