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  #41  
Old 04-19-2018, 06:59 PM
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I appreciate hearing that you guys are interested in the project! It certainly takes some time to document and update these threads but I enjoy sharing it (it also helps keep me even more motivated) and I like to hopefully give back just a fraction of what I receive while reading and learning from other's info and posts on here.

Not much physically done the last couple days, but certainly have some better ideas to start moving forward....hopefully!

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As was mentioned by Mark, cardboard templates and temporary mock ups are a necessity at this point to help get a visual idea of what's going on and to fill in the blanks a bit.

Here I did a quick mockup of the sail panel. I moved it around to add or remove thickness from the sail panel width. In the end I actually preferred it just slightly wider than I had in my concept (roughly 10.5" rather than 9.75") though that can and may change still. I think this picture was with it at the 9.75" width?

I don't remember if I mentioned previously that the roof rails above the doors are not really correct. In order to get the rear of the roof lower I basically just tilted the whole roof down (with the pivot point the top corner by the windshield) This is giving just a straight "wedge" to the roof line vs. the door top. Eventually it'll be re-made with a very slight curve to help it flow a bit better....it's not much (maybe .5" higher up at the rear of the door) but it'll help the look visually. (Hard to describe, but eventually it'll make sense)

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After I removed the B-post and was doing the sail panel mock up and thinking about the side glass, it really bugged me that the beltline and the roof have such a nice flowing curve and that would be interrupted if flat side glass was put back in eventually.

The removal of the B-post would really compound the look of the flat door glass and flat quarter glass meeting up (previously the post interrupted the "flow" and disguised it)

Sorry for the poor picture, unfortunately I have to take some of these pictures looking out the south facing door when the sun is out.

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Another view from the front showing the nice beltline curve and the straight sections where the side glass previously mounted.

What I've been thinking and pondering about the last day or so is incorporating curved side glass that will compliment the curvature of the body.

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In this picture I drew red lines to help show where the flat side glass would have been and the "kink" it would create where the post was (it will no longer be there as we are turning it into a hardtop......it'll be door glass butting up to quarter glass)

The green lines help show the curve of the body side, beltline and roof rail.

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I used my profile gauge to get the correct profile off the beltline.......

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.....and have been on the hunt for the perfect curved windshield to eventually cut the side glass out of. (This glass isn't correct, just used the picture as an example)

Today I located a glass that seems to fit the profile gauge perfectly, so I've ordered a glass that should arrive tomorrow. Once I have the actual glass I can really do some more brainstorming and thinking about rebuilding the roof rails, etc.

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While doing all this thinking and pondering, I at least wanted to make some forward progress.....what's the only way to eat an elephant?!!

The dash needs to be filled of all it's misc. holes so I figured I shouldn't put that off. This will be much nicer to do before the firewall and floor are in!!

I forgot to take a before picture this morning, so I just cropped a previous picture that had the dash in it for reference.

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Here I've already started filling what I assume was an opening for an optional clock? The radio face cutout, and all the little slots around the inset area that the stainless trim attached to. Currently \ the stamped recess for the radio knobs cut out with a patch taped into position ready to be tacked.

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All the misc. holes in the recessed portion of the dash have been filled. I'll continue shaving and filling the rest of the dash (excluding the gauge hole and the column hole)
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Last edited by pplace; 04-19-2018 at 07:06 PM.
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  #42  
Old 04-19-2018, 09:25 PM
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Steve Hamilton Steve Hamilton is offline
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the dash looks good Dane
keep posting your thoughts and mock up patterns.
I use CAD all the time, (cardboard aided design)
world class metal work can't fix an ugly design.

Steve
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  #43  
Old 04-19-2018, 11:52 PM
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Superleggera Superleggera is offline
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Note: mockup your new rear wheel opening with tape, cardboard and marker pen per you design illustration.

Why? Your c-pillar reflects elements of the original curved rear wheel opening which you are discarding. You should be interrelating the new c-pillar flow to what will become the new square shaped rear wheel opening instead.
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  #44  
Old 04-20-2018, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superleggera View Post
Note: mockup your new rear wheel opening with tape, cardboard and marker pen per you design illustration.

Why? Your c-pillar reflects elements of the original curved rear wheel opening which you are discarding. You should be interrelating the new c-pillar flow to what will become the new square shaped rear wheel opening instead.
I’m not sure I follow what you are saying? You think that the new curve of the roofline / quarter window compliments the stock rear wheel opening?

If my memory serves me right I have on file at work a photoshop of just the roof changed (nothing else). I can look in the folder at work tomorrow and see if I’m correct with that thought.

I appreciate the info and observation, but changing the rear wheel opening to compliment the front was high on my list as well as the customer’s once I showed him the initial design idea.

Edit: I just did a quick photo shop putting the original opening back on the rear quarter. I do see where you see the same curve of the rear side glass profile and the original wheel opening. Personally, IMO I (as well as the customer) really like the look of each wheel opening front and rear complimenting each other.

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A comparison of them next to eachother

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Last edited by pplace; 04-20-2018 at 12:59 AM.
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  #45  
Old 04-21-2018, 05:09 PM
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I worked a bit this morning on the side window opening wood template. This defines the shape of the glass obviously but more importantly will be a "buck" that I can fabricate the new roof rail structure to. I promise.....soon I'll actually be fabricating some sheet metal on this project!

I have the side template cut out and have been refining the shape. It's pretty close, but I still need to "dial in" the curve at the top of the quarter glass and the rear of the door glass. I'm sanding and reshaping a bit at a time trying to sneak up on the exact profile that I like....getting close.

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The side template was close enough that I wanted to add "stringers" on the back side of it that hold it to the correct curvature. I took templates off the glass that I will be using and cut the shape out of some 2x4's. As you can see they hold the curvature really nice.

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Here the "buck" is set on the windshield just to show how the curve fits.

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It's hard to see in pictures, but looks very nice in person already. The curve of the glass follows along really nice with the beltline of the door and quarter. Obviously in time, I'll trim off the top sections to get rid of the "flat" opening for the original glass and fabricate a new edge that follows the contour of the curved side glass.

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As I mentioned, I'm still not 100% satisfied with the shape of the upper quarter glass curve as it blends into the rear of the door glass. A bit more sanding and shaping to lower it is needed I think, however here you can see how it already gradually tapers away from the windshield post back.

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My youngest son and our newish puppy were hanging out helping a bit as well!
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  #46  
Old 04-21-2018, 06:05 PM
Charlie Myres Charlie Myres is offline
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Whilst most of this forum is concerned largely with reverse-engineering and thinking of how to use new functional methods of doing this; you Dane, are reverse-designing and doing an astonishingly good job of it!

That poor little car, probably never thought it would end up as a roof, dashboard and some quarters, held together with air.

What a fascinating project! Don't feel hesitant about posting what you have, it is just as important as the metal-shaping to follow,

Cheers Charlie
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  #47  
Old 04-21-2018, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Myres View Post

That poor little car, probably never thought it would end up as a roof, dashboard and some quarters, held together with air.

Cheers Charlie
Thank you very much for the encouragement and the enjoyment of following along so far.

That little car is unaware that once I get that side window profile dialed in exactly its loosing its roof also!ha

It was decided to shave the driprail around the roof. Obviously with the construction style of the original roof, once the drip rail is cut off the roof skin will no longer be attached. Ill actually take advantage of that opportunity to work on fabricating the new side roof rails (that will tie into the factory windshield post and header) without any obstruction from the roof skin. Ill also be able to build and reshape the roofskin with it off the vehicle also.

So while taking the roof off seems like more work, it makes the work I need to do easier and I can do a better job of it as well.
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  #48  
Old 04-23-2018, 05:40 PM
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Today I cut the roof skin loose. Since we are shaving the drip rails, cutting through them automatically release the exterior skin obviously. Since I have to redesign and fabricate new side roof rails, having the skin off will be nice anyways. (Otherwise I would have just cut several inches of the drip rail loose and welded the separation bit by bit normally)

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With the skin off and the passenger roof rail is removed back to the factory joint near the windshield post. I'll rebuild a new rail back from there.

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I'll set the roofskin aside for a while.

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The side window template / buck I made attaches to the windshield post and to the temporary bracing inside. I can unscrew it, remove it and reinstall in the same location each time. This will probably come in handy as I fabricate the new rail.

Tomorrow I'll start designing and making patters for the rail and hopefully start working and rebuilding with new sheet metal tomorrow finally.

Edit: Even though the body is braced, I set it up and leveled it front to back in multiple spots and and measured for square. Realistically I'd love for the body to be on our building rack, but I've got the chassis sitting there currently. I'll just keep a good eye and keep double checking for level and square. Eventually before any of the floor or main internal structure is fabricated or re-built the body will actually be set back onto the rack over the chassis and built to fit that. The adjustable jack stand under the center of the rocker is just set under there "just touching" to make sure nothing settles or bows in the middle. Belts and suspenders deal pretty much! The passenger door latches with a push of a finger...really smooth. The driver's door isn't as nice, but wasn't when the car was together, but all the door opening dimensions are exactly the same side to side so we'll just refine that when the time comes.
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Last edited by pplace; 04-23-2018 at 05:52 PM.
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  #49  
Old 04-27-2018, 10:58 PM
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First I want to start off and say some of these photos may be a bit hard to understand exactly what's going on, it's tough to capture things in pictures always.

I finally started fabricating some sheet metal. I've re-designed and built the passenger roof rail side structure. Most of this component will never be seen (either hidden under the roof skin or behind the headliner / upholstery) The only part visible later will be the weather strip area and the bottom face of the rail.

Basically, the rail structure is a box fabricated out of overlapping individual pieces:

1. Because that's the best way I know how to fabricate it with my knowledge and available equipment.

2. The overlapping joints allowed the use of plug welding and added necessary strength and rigidity.

I'll try to explain and make some sense of the buildup of the rail and my pictures to follow.

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The first individual part to form was a 90 that was shaped to the side profile of the wooden side window template as well as the curvature of the glass that will be used. (Here just set into place to check the fit to the buck)

This piece will actually be what the roof skin edge attaches to eventually, and most importantly is the top of the future weather strip channel (I've redesigned the roof rail since we've removed the door tops and the car will be a hardtop now)

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I created a paper pattern and cut out four matching side pieces (2 for passenger rail and 2 for the driver rail)

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The bottom face or "U" channel was fabricated next. Initially I was going to try this in one piece, but realized before I started that I wouldn't be able to get the narrow channel in my shrinker / stretcher jaws. So it was shaped out of two individual 90 deg. pieces, scribed to the correct width and fully butt welded together as this is the only face of the rail that will be visible when finished.

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Here's looking down the length of the lower "U" channel showing the curve necessary to fit the curved glass.

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This picture may be a bit hard to understand.

The left piece is a blank side (inner part of rail)

The middle piece is the bottom "U" channel punched with holes for plug welding.

The piece on the right is another side piece with the 90 flange for the roof / weather strip plug welded to it.

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Here you can see the side pieces have been set inside the lower "U" channel and plug welded. The overlaps are fine because the outer will be hidden behind the weather strip and the inner one will be behind the headliner / upholstery.

Also notice I created an upper "U" channel much like the bottom one except this was done with a lap joint plug welded together. This was faster as well as doubling up certainly didn't hurt the strength of it. This will be tucked up under the roof skin so it will also never be seen later.

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Here the sides and bottom "U" component have been punched for all the plug welding. The top "U" channel slips in between each side piece (unlike the bottom "U" that went on the outside of each side piece. I did this so I could "squeeze" and clamp the side pieces onto the top channel for the plug welds.

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This picture is basically looking at the top and inside face of the roof rail. Just finished all the plug welds for the upper channel. As you can see, a person can never use too many clamps to hold things properly in alignment!

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I cleaned up all the welds and the weld thru primer (The gold colored coating shown in previous pictures)

This is looking at the outer side face and the attached 90 flange for the roof edge and upper weather strip surface.

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Looking down the length of the rail you can see the curvature of the glass was maintained.

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With the rail just sitting into position. Transitioning and blending and connecting properly to the windshield post and header will be a future task. I'll also have to slightly modify this rail and the existing windshield post to work with my plans for the front vent glass and frame later.

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Again looking from the rear of the car forward you can see the nice curve. It really fits the wooden template (and the actual glass profile nicely)

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This is a close up with the weather strip I'll be using set onto the wood buck. You can see how the top fits against the added flange (the inner face fits against the side of the roof rail (there will eventually be an outer edge added later to create the full "U" for the weather strip to fit into properly.

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A close up of the weather strip, rail and flange from the front. As mentioned the furthest most forward portion will me modified slightly later since the vent glass frame will need a bit different method used for weather strip.

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A view from inside. The front of the rail will be grafted and blended into the windshield post and header (with proper sleeving and jointing where necessary)

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One last view of the weather strip fit into position to help visualize it a bit better. It'll make more sense as I progress further along in the project.

Thanks for following along.
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  #50  
Old 04-28-2018, 06:53 AM
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Thanks for these pics, Dane. I've got a rusty window frame/roof project here and these details are helping me think towards how it needs to be addressed.
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