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  #21  
Old 03-14-2010, 09:30 AM
Charley Davidson Charley Davidson is offline
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John your preaching to the choir when you tell me about trying to make a living at anything along the creative/lost art/craftsmanship line of work. I owned a highly custom woodworking business for years then chased the dreams of being a country music star comedian/entertainer for the last 15 years. BUT knowledge and ability to do thing like this is worth more than anything you can learn in school these days. I graduated time and again top of my class in the school of hard knocks and still taking classes lol. So along with getting my grandson interested in learning this or any other real mechanical skill I will instill in him the value of a good education and further education with a degree in business.

Never had a grandpa that I was old enough to remember much about & my dad never did anything with me or tried to teach me anything. I'm looking forward to spending quality time with the grandson building a relationship and neat stuff that will live in him long after I'm gone. Not only are we shaping metal but were shaping lives.
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2010, 05:30 PM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Buchtenkirch View Post
Not really interested in patents, lawyers or get rich quick schemes. Just want to eat,pay my bills and build my new grandson some cool stuff in hopes he'll be interested in this craft.


I don’t have a grandson but if I did I wouldn’t show him this craft / trade till he was well established in another profession because the truth be known this is a easy craft to fall in love with but a tuff trade to make good money in . I for one certainly would have more $$$ now if I had stayed in the collision trade. In 3 different occasions I have seen guys trying to sell out all their equipment on Craigslist because they finally realized there are more lucrative ways to make money.

Thanks to the bike & hot rod build shows on TV a lot of impressionable young people think this is a cool way to get rich or to at least make a good living, well I wish them luck but feel many will be disappointed in the end. I still love the creativity but don’t know if I could recommend it to someone who had the responsibility of paying family bills. ~ John Buchtenkirch
I agree with everything you say John. It is a rewarding craft in may ways but the monetary rewards are not good.

I would not recommend this as a way of making a living. I don't know how a survived the first ten years or so, the stress of trying to deal with customers unrealistic expectations and reluctance to pay for the work at a reasonable hourly rate..........Nightmare!

I don't know if it got easier or if I just got better at coping with it I still just get by and could probably make more money working at the local supermarket or sweeping the streets.
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  #23  
Old 03-14-2010, 05:39 PM
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HEATNBEAT HEATNBEAT is offline
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Originally Posted by David Gardiner View Post
I agree with everything you say John. It is a rewarding craft in may ways but the monetary rewards are not good.

I would not recommend this as a way of making a living. I don't know how a survived the first ten years or so, the stress of trying to deal with customers unrealistic expectations and reluctance to pay for the work at a reasonable hourly rate..........Nightmare!

I don't know if it got easier or if I just got better at coping with it I still just get by and could probably make more money working at the local supermarket or sweeping the streets.
I know some Street Roders that would brag about spending $2000 with Boyd Coddington and would bitch about $200 for the same job with anyone else
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  #24  
Old 03-14-2010, 06:11 PM
BashingTin BashingTin is offline
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Originally Posted by HEATNBEAT View Post
I know some Street Roders that would brag about spending $2000 with Boyd Coddington and would bitch about $200 for the same job with anyone else
I was surprised at how reasonable shop rates are for even the big shops. In my area there's a place that is famous for their metal shaping work. It's called Pinkee's Rod Shop, and is owned and operated by Eric Peratt. Some of you may have heard of it.

http://pinkeesrodshop.com/default.aspx

Anywho, on a visit I asked what their going shop rate was, and it's only something like $30 to $35 per hour. That is pretty cheap if you ask me. I come from a machining background where $75 to $100 per hour for shop time is common. Eric is super busy too. I counted 14 cars in various stages of completion in his space.

Here are some of Pinkee's awards, just to show you his outfit is one of the countries better builders:

Pinkee's Rod Shop Awards & Achievements

  • 2007 - Builder of the Year - Grand National Roadster Show, Pamona, CA
  • 2005 - Chip Foose design award - Grand National Roadster Show, Pamona, CA - Loaded
  • 2005 - "Go for the Gold" award - Darryl Starbird's National Rod & Custom show, Tulsa, OK - Loaded
  • 2005 - Cassidy Cup - Detroit Autorama - Loaded
  • 2002 - GoodGuys Custom Rod of the Year - Des Moines, IA, Knotwood
  • 2002 - GoodGuys Motivator award presented by Hot Rod Youth, Josh Mishler
  • 2002 - Alexander Brothers Award - presented at the Detroit Autorama - Knotwood
  • 2001 - Trendsetter Award - presented to Eric by the GoodGuys Rod and Custom Association at the SEMA show in Las Vegas
  • 2001 - Street Rodder Magazine Top 10 - 1933 Ford Roadster
  • 2001 - Boyd Pros Pick - 1933 Ford Roadster
  • 2001 - Rod and Custom Pros Pick - 1933 Ford Roadster
  • 2001 - GoodGuys Top 5 - Most Beautiful Street Rod - 1933 Ford Roadster
  • 1999 - Portland Roadster Show - Goldmark Award - The Comet
  • 1998 - GoodGuys Top 5 for Street Rod of the Year - The Comet
  • 1998 - Ridler Award - Detroit Autorama - The Comet
  • 1998 - Street Rodder Magazine Top 10 - The Comet
  • 1998 - Boyd Pros Pick - The Comet
  • 1998 - Rod and Custom Pros Pick
  • 1996 - Street Rod Magazine Street Rod of the Year
  • 1996 - Boyd Pros Pick
  • 1996 - Street Rodder Magazine Top 10

So I agree with all of you. It must be damn hard to do this for a living. Especially if guys like Eric with his impressive credentials, can only get a modest shop rate. No way to compete against that. This metal shaping will be a hobby for me.

You have to admit, many of the guys on this forum are SERIOUS about this hobby. Just look at some of the tools and machines they have!

David
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  #25  
Old 03-14-2010, 07:53 PM
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87hdrush 87hdrush is offline
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And keep in mind that HF doesn't give a tinkers damn about pattents, and will rip off anything they can get their hands on. If you don't want the Chinese to make money on your idea, don't share it. Most everything shared here is being built and sold, and a lot of it by "good ole American metalshapers" who picked up the ideas here. Of course, they will flately state that they came up with it in a dream, or while intoxicated.

Share away, it's good for the soul, and the Chinese economy. Remember, they are buying our Treasury Bonds.

Tuck
OK i've bit my tounge long egnough (it's bleedin' pretty bad) I'm a little off topic but ya'all opened the door.
I say give china all your bluebrints let-em build their second rate crap outa' bad quality materials and then sell them for half of what it cost's us to build them and when they break you can cash your unemployment check at WalMart and go buy another one. 90% of my tools are American made 5% from GB & Europe the other 5% you guessed JUNK. Go ahead spend $59.95 for a swivle head machinest vise 50 lbs. of scrap cast iron. because if it doesn't break in less than a year I'll kiss your A.
Take it for what it's worth. Look at the lable it tells you where it's made.
Buy it, or not, IT IS YOUR JOB. and it IS SECOND RATE JUNK.
Ask me I tried to save money and BROKE EVERYTHING MADE IN CHINA.
delete this move it hopefully pay attention to it
There are exceptions but damn few.
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  #26  
Old 03-14-2010, 09:18 PM
Charley Davidson Charley Davidson is offline
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Ted, Why do you sugar coat things? Why don't you let it all out and say what you feel?
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  #27  
Old 03-14-2010, 09:35 PM
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87hdrush 87hdrush is offline
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Figured I'd beter keep it PG hey I got a Dodge, a Pontiac and 2 Harleys AND all my Whirlpool appliances are made in Clyde, Ohio. spend your money where you make it and you'll always have a job. When they said to BUY AMERICAN during WWII it was to build a stronger country. GO ahead buy Chinese......NOT ME.
ARGH!!! just looked at the lable on my computerCHINAya' just can't win
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Last edited by 87hdrush; 03-14-2010 at 09:56 PM.
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  #28  
Old 03-16-2010, 10:18 AM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley Davidson View Post
John your preaching to the choir when you tell me about trying to make a living at anything along the creative/lost art/craftsmanship line of work. I owned a highly custom woodworking business for years then chased the dreams of being a country music star comedian/entertainer for the last 15 years. BUT knowledge and ability to do thing like this is worth more than anything you can learn in school these days. I graduated time and again top of my class in the school of hard knocks and still taking classes lol. So along with getting my grandson interested in learning this or any other real mechanical skill I will instill in him the value of a good education and further education with a degree in business.

Never had a grandpa that I was old enough to remember much about & my dad never did anything with me or tried to teach me anything. I'm looking forward to spending quality time with the grandson building a relationship and neat stuff that will live in him long after I'm gone. Not only are we shaping metal but were shaping lives.
Charley, your wanting to spend quality time with your grandson is certainly commendable but I still suggest not steering him towards the automotive trades unless he is the kid you just can’t keep out of the garage, if that’s the case he has already made up his mind. I only mentioned this because after reading about your idea of developing a tool for the metal shaping trade I realized you had some pretty unrealistic ideas about the trade. If you want to make some $$$ developing tools come up with something for the kitchen where the potential sales are millions, not just a few hundreds the shaping community might possibly generate. When you consider how “hands on crafty” most shapers are you should realize you’re more likely to become the father of a bunch of copies rather than the father of a successful business venture. Good luck anyway . ~ John Buchtenkirch
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  #29  
Old 03-16-2010, 01:39 PM
Charley Davidson Charley Davidson is offline
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John, your either misinterpreting what I'm saying or because of my dislike for typing and lack of skills at it I'm not expressing myself properly.

I don't want to make a living at making/selling tools but if I can make a few bucks then that would be great. I know almost everybody here has the capability of doing anything I can and more. But not all want to spend time doing certain things. If I can make a useful tool or tools that are below a certain dollar amount then people are more apt to buy it rather than make it.

I "DO NOT" want to steer my grandson into this or any other creative business as a means of making a living. Just to teach him some skills and get him interested in things like this for hobby and bonding reasons. His dad literally cannot change a light bulb. My daughter or exwife has to do it. I'd hate to see my grandson grow up like that. Besides what's more fun and rewarding? going to a car show to see what others have done or taking your own vehicle that you bhilt or restored? Would you rather watch the drag races or go and drag race your self?

This thread has really went way off track.
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  #30  
Old 03-16-2010, 02:36 PM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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OK, I agree, if his dad really can’t change a light bulb you should guide your grandson as much as possible . ~ John Buchtenkirch
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