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  #21  
Old 03-01-2019, 06:48 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaroslav View Post

.....................

When you do a good result you are happy. Your joy is greater than the joy of a banker who has just robbed the whole city ..... and he just has no idea what to buy for his joy.
..................
Turn off your cell phone and meditate in metal.

Thanks Jaro!
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  #22  
Old 03-01-2019, 08:35 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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I don't have a cell phone.
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2019, 11:08 AM
Adam H Adam H is offline
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This is interesting, however I’d be surprised if this system had legs enough over other methods to produce these types of panels. Ford Motor Company already owns a proprietary machine to 3D print body panels.
While its not additive manufacturing in the traditional 3D printing sense, I’m sure it won’t be far away before a formulation or method for some sort of metal deposition manufacturing can accurately print metal in thin dimensions of any shape with little or no “pixelation”. I would guess only limited by the size of the printing bed...
And... here we are all on computers when 20 or so years ago all of this information would have been disseminated from word of mouth or printed text so there you go.That’s progress- good or bad .
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  #24  
Old 03-02-2019, 01:30 PM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Default Mother of progress.

Note that in many cases laziness and awkwardness maybe stupidity is the mother of progress.

Laziness - the reluctance to do routine simple work. The invention of an automatic washing machine and a sewing machine.

Awkwardness - staffing problems, thought, replacement of staff behind the machine. Increased productivity and quality.

Stupidity - 3D print. Why? Technicians have great ideas, courage, creativity and imagination. Bankers have money, but they have no courage, no creativity, no imagination. 3D printing enabled them to communicate with each other in projects. They have no common language.

Virtual fantasy - a beautiful thing. It is impossible to overestimate it. If there is an awareness that in the future everything will be on the buttons and without more effort. It's a mistake. We know that before the understanding of the essence of the problem comes, half of life is gone, and other questions come.

Stupidity and misunderstanding - the two greatest enemies of all progress.

Technical progress is a necessity even though we do not like it at any given time. We need to think a lot about how to use the ideas of progress.
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  #25  
Old 03-03-2019, 03:40 AM
cvairwerks cvairwerks is offline
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Someone mentioned 3D printing....

https://www.hill.af.mil/News/Article...alled-on-f-22/
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  #26  
Old 03-03-2019, 03:43 PM
Joe Swamp Joe Swamp is offline
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This is an interesting topic to me. It's funny how we often have aversions to automation/technology introduced in our own lifetimes, yet we consider automation prior to our birthdate to be just the way things are. I read a book a few years back that argued that the sewing machine was one of the most disruptive technologies of the last 500 years, far more significant than smart phones or industrial robots.

As for robotic panel shaping, I'm not too worried about this one becoming a reality anytime soon, except for specialized cases. For this to work for an arbitrary shape you need a method of work holding that's almost as flexible as human arms and hands, and we are several decades away from that right now. You also need a feedback mechanism to react to how the curve is coming into the desired shape (including any potential change in panel arrangement). This part isn't really impossible, but it is expensive right now. Finally, wheeling is just one aspect of panel shaping -- there's also shrinking, raising, forming edges, etc. The bag of tricks in this trade is truly large.

I can see robotic wheeling potentially working in the standardized rectangular panels that Gehry & co are using on their buildings. How are they making these shapes now? There might be an easier way than robotic wheeling -- like stretch forming over some sort of reconfigurable die, or perhaps using some kind of short term die made of cheap material that can be remelted.

I work in robotics and automation and I've often thought about how to automate sheet metal shaping, but I don't see any obvious holy grail solution. Then again, people said the same thing about automated shoe manufacturing in the 19th century -- then some genius invented several creative machines and made it happen.
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  #27  
Old 03-04-2019, 02:05 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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3D metal printing is already an advanced production technology. Compensation for the original procedures. Cheaper, faster and better. This method produces decorative stainless steel exhaust pipes parts......

The automated shaping method in a sequential manner can only occur if the brain is combined.
Cnc brain, manual brain, brain with imagination, financial brain.

To divide and combine these three categories, to teach them mutual respect and understanding, victory can take place.

Foolness, arrogance,destruction of ideas, lack of empathy are great brakes for development. The enthusiasm can always be greater than stupidity. Enthusiasm must be bigger, than stupidity , there is no need to fear the rapid introduction of cnc molding technology.

If you've tried something to offer for a big carmaker or big business, you'll understand right now. You have to go through so much stupidity persons before you get somewhere and when you're almost out of place you're so exhausted that you no longer have an idea.
Maybe you did not have an idea? You certainly did not get to the place where someone would talk about the idea with you.

If you feel that perpetum mobile - an eternal machine can not be imagined, so stupidity and arrogance replace it.

"I could have patented it."
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  #28  
Old 03-04-2019, 03:31 AM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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3d metal printing, computers, robots making panels etc , and what ever else comes with today and tomorrow technology. To some point ....yes it's probably OK, but where is the fun and satisfaction and skills in that??? Call me old fashion,and may be I am old fashion if you like but I prefer it the way it is. And... if robots are going to do this and that and then some more? What is a human been going to do??
Peter
PS may be I have been doing it for too long ................
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Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 03-04-2019 at 03:45 AM.
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  #29  
Old 03-04-2019, 04:25 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tommasini View Post
3d metal printing, computers, robots making panels etc , and what ever else comes with today and tomorrow technology. To some point ....yes it's probably OK, but where is the fun and satisfaction and skills in that??? Call me old fashion,and may be I am old fashion if you like but I prefer it the way it is. And... if robots are going to do this and that and then some more? What is a human been going to do??
Peter
PS may be I have been doing it for too long ................

Peter. Already that's happening. The spring is here. Beautiful young girls will put off winter stuff, will be wear t-shirts without brassieres, a short skirt ....... and will be look at in the MOBILE PHONE PICTURES.
That's the future - and about virtual intimacy ...??? yes, that's how it looks.

We are far from the subject.
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  #30  
Old 03-04-2019, 11:23 AM
bobadame bobadame is offline
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It's interesting that the student's approach was to simply replace the human arms with robots while still using a standard wheeling machine. From what I read she was working with a group of R&D people at the company which sponsored her internship. After reading a little about that company i found that they do many things usually on a physically large architectural scale. The company's origins include complex cornice work going back several generations so I suspect that they gave the student this project simply provide her with a challenging project for the summer. I doubt that they are interested in replacing metal shapers with robots. I believe that they are more interested in doing works that are too big and heavy for humans.

I don't know but I think that Cloud Gate in Chicago was probably accomplished with a large degree of automation. If you study it closely you'll see that the entire sculpture is symmetrical about it's z and X axis. So there are many individual, identical pieces. These pieces were probably individual patches of a 3-D model which were individually shaped then trimmed by a 4 or 5 axis water jet. Then tacked and welded together. My point with this example is to suggest that works of this size would probably be designed by the artist then farmed out to shops which had the understanding and machinery to accomplish the work. So the artist still builds the model and gets his or her cut. Smaller works would probably be referred to professional sheet metalshapers in the company's Rolodex.

This is getting really long but I also wanted to comment that the student's work made no mention of shrinking or other methods of work holding or forming. Maybe next summer's PHD research. In the mean time she would benefit greatly by spending some time with Cass or Peter or others or by visiting these forums.

Also, here's a link that explains a bit about the student's sponsor. Evidently they are a family business with 5 generations of that family currently involved with the business.


https://www.azahner.com/about/history
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Last edited by bobadame; 03-04-2019 at 11:26 AM.
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