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  #11  
Old 01-03-2019, 07:13 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojeep View Post
Maybe others can see his videos on this link?

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Awadi-co...=page_internal
Marcus. Thank you for this link. I saw a video with Olive machine. I understand that machine doing a reverse curve. I'll try the tool for my big bead roller. I think the result will be similar. I'll send the photos sometime in the future. It's an interesting way of shaping.
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:07 AM
dwmh dwmh is offline
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Thanks Peter T. for adding so much more info. Happy New Year.
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:41 PM
steve.murphy steve.murphy is offline
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Thanks Marcus and Peter, good info.
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  #14  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:14 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojeep View Post
Maybe others can see his videos on this link?

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Awadi-co...=page_internal

For beginners out there that do not understand how a reverse curve works
Simply watch the video where Mohamed is using the olive machine and see how he changes the position of the panel tighten the rollers and pulls down at the right time on to the machine.
This method can be used when the reverse is done either by wheeling. Or hammering with or without machines
So this is what he is doing...............

1st First he puts the panel in the middle of the top roller and with some pressure he brakes the grain.
.................................................. .................................................. ....
NOW this is the same action when using a wheeling machine
.................................................. .................................................. ...
1st put the panel through the wheeling machine and brake the grain with little pressure.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
2nd after a couple of runs he increased the pressure on the roller and moves the panel a little off the center of the top roller
.................................................. .................................................. .......
NOW this is the same action when using a wheeling machine
.................................................. .................................................. ...
2nd start stretching one of the edges by wheeling backwards and make the edge wavy (back the pressure OFF when working towards the center
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

3rd He keeps changing the position of the panel on to the roller in order to stretch the two edges as he want's them
.................................................. .................................................. ........
NOW this is the same action using a wheeling machine
.................................................. .................................................. .....
3rd stretch the other edge as necessary make the edge wavy BUT again keep the pressure off when working towards the center
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

4th He is now starting to pull down on the panel while the panel is exiting the machine ,and .. NOTE THAT THE EDGE IS GETTING TIGHT
.................................................. .................................................. ..
NOW this is the same action using a wheeling machine
.................................................. .................................................. ...
4th We have now two stretched edges, so back the pressure off till the top wheel and lower anvil are JUST TOUCHING with the panel backwards on to the wheel PULL the panel UPWARDS TOWARDS THE TOP WHEEL starting from the center and working towards the two stretched edges till the edges are tight again
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
You can clearly see this action that Mohamed is using on the rollers when he tightens the machine, and when He moves the panel where He want's it
.................................................. .................................................. ......
On the wheel the same action is used, meaning keep stretching the edge till wavy, .... back the pressure off,..... panel backwards on wheel,.... work your way to the edges,.Till the shape wanted is achieved
Peter

Ohhh..I forgot one important thing when stretching the edges use a reasonable flat anvil (not too flat ''check shape of the return'') then when working from the middle towards the edges use a lightly rounder anvil, this is because you do not want create lines on the return.
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Metalshaping tools and dvds
www.handbuilt.net.au

Metalshaping clip on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh91hodPg

Making Monaro Quarter panel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM

Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 01-03-2019 at 08:37 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2019, 01:20 PM
BTromblay BTromblay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Tommasini View Post
Bill there are a few techniques to weld alluminium I have seen it in Italy in 1967/68 at Scaglietti, and also at Carrozzeria Touring in Milan *Italy) when I visited there .
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............
Years later, then living in Australia I did see and practice the way that the English tradesman did it in England at Aston Martin ,Rolls Royce. .. They did it a bit different but with the same results.

So here I will try to explain how

In Italy two people would weld a long and large panel, by one person holding the two panels together, and manipulating the panels so the next person (after preparing and fluxing the two panels) would run the oxy torch over the joint and melt the two parts together. Then the panel would get replenished and hammered up on a Maglio , then finished off by hand, this method is very hard to do, and I have only seen a few people doing it right.
I my self cannot get it .
I have seen two other methods from England tradesmen , The first method was... to turn (with a hand made tool) a very small edge upwards on each of the edges to be welded, then fuse those two edges together, ( again with oxy) meaning that the two upwards edges where used as filler rod. Then after washing the flux thoroughly, the panel would be planished on a stake dolly and then wheeled up . when with this method the panel was finished ,on the inside of the panel the penetration was nearly invisible , it looked like a mark done with a wet finger on the ally. I have tred that and it works rather well .

The next method is the normal conventional method to cut file and bevel the two edges , adjust and tack (again with oxy) then weld with a HOT but soft flame (this is called carbonizing flame ) then simply planish and wheel. The problem with this method.... YOU NEED to have the torch really really working well, WHY ? 1st...... because you do not want to have too much penetration, because that is only going to upset the planishing, 2nd...it might either have a cold weld (meaning it's too high) or a too hot weld causing holes and uneven weld

If you where to ask me which method I like better.. I would say that, once I have decided on the type of shape I will be welding, I would then decide which method I would use
Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the information, it is always great to get a detailed description on how the work is performed.

I'm gas welding aluminum now with excellent results. Most of my parts are smaller in size, 2' x 3' (600mm x 900mm) so it is easier to manipulate the panels. So far, the process I like the most is to tack in several spots at one end of the seam. I adjust the panel, planish as needed and them weld the same area about 1/2" (12mm) long. I can then move the panel up and down, in and out as needed and fuse tack along the seam until it is tacked from one end to the other. Planish and adjust as I need, then one weld full length from one side to the other with filler rod. Light planish/wheeling as needed and body file off the balance of the weld. Due to Federal aviation regulations, I'm required to leave a visual portion (weld bead) of the weld seam. I metal finish the out side of the panel smooth to the surface and leave the weld bead on the inside of the panel. If I get undercutting or a small low spot next to the weld, I will push up what I can, with out using a pick hammer, (I don't like pick marks on the back side of my panel). If I have small lows, 1/8" 3mm or smaller, I use an aluminum solder to ill them in and metal finish the surface. Makes for a clean appearance for the customer who can be Fuss Pots over little detail items.

I still have more to learn, but getting better every day.

Thanks

Bill
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2019, 05:27 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTromblay View Post
Hi Peter,

Thanks for the information, it is always great to get a detailed description on how the work is performed.

I'm gas welding aluminum now with excellent results. Most of my parts are smaller in size, 2' x 3' (600mm x 900mm) so it is easier to manipulate the panels. So far, the process I like the most is to tack in several spots at one end of the seam. I adjust the panel, planish as needed and them weld the same area about 1/2" (12mm) long. I can then move the panel up and down, in and out as needed and fuse tack along the seam until it is tacked from one end to the other. Planish and adjust as I need, then one weld full length from one side to the other with filler rod. Light planish/wheeling as needed and body file off the balance of the weld. Due to Federal aviation regulations, I'm required to leave a visual portion (weld bead) of the weld seam. I metal finish the out side of the panel smooth to the surface and leave the weld bead on the inside of the panel. If I get undercutting or a small low spot next to the weld, I will push up what I can, with out using a pick hammer, (I don't like pick marks on the back side of my panel). If I have small lows, 1/8" 3mm or smaller, I use an aluminum solder to ill them in and metal finish the surface. Makes for a clean appearance for the customer who can be Fuss Pots over little detail items.

I still have more to learn, but getting better every day.

Thanks

Bill
Welding ally on aviation panels has some small difference on finishing the weld and the panels, but as far as I know the way to prepared for welding is the same
Peter
Peter
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Metalshaping tools and dvds
www.handbuilt.net.au

Metalshaping clip on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh91hodPg

Making Monaro Quarter panel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2019, 05:43 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTromblay View Post
Hi Peter,

Thanks for the information, it is always great to get a detailed description on how the work is performed.

I'm gas welding aluminum now with excellent results. Most of my parts are smaller in size, 2' x 3' (600mm x 900mm) so it is easier to manipulate the panels. So far, the process I like the most is to tack in several spots at one end of the seam. I adjust the panel, planish as needed and them weld the same area about 1/2" (12mm) long. I can then move the panel up and down, in and out as needed and fuse tack along the seam until it is tacked from one end to the other. Planish and adjust as I need, then one weld full length from one side to the other with filler rod. Light planish/wheeling as needed and body file off the balance of the weld. Due to Federal aviation regulations, I'm required to leave a visual portion (weld bead) of the weld seam. I metal finish the out side of the panel smooth to the surface and leave the weld bead on the inside of the panel. If I get undercutting or a small low spot next to the weld, I will push up what I can, with out using a pick hammer, (I don't like pick marks on the back side of my panel). If I have small lows, 1/8" 3mm or smaller, I use an aluminum solder to ill them in and metal finish the surface. Makes for a clean appearance for the customer who can be Fuss Pots over little detail items.

I still have more to learn, but getting better every day.

Thanks

Bill

I'm glad your torch is now working for you, Bill.
A little bit of maintenance on it was all that was needed.

Good to see you are practicing your welding.
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  #18  
Old 01-06-2019, 03:33 PM
BTromblay BTromblay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
I'm glad your torch is now working for you, Bill.
A little bit of maintenance on it was all that was needed.

Good to see you are practicing your welding.
Hi,

My learning curve was a little long, but the quality of my welds are good now. My work, looks as good as the factory welds and I'm a happy guy. I still practice often, but like any new skill, it takes time to perfect.

Thanks for your help, I still would like to take your class. I found your class schedule on your website, will keep an eye on it for the 2019 season.

Bill
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  #19  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:13 PM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Bill, can you talk a bit more about the solder fill process?
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2019, 12:48 PM
BTromblay BTromblay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry Pinkerton View Post
Bill, can you talk a bit more about the solder fill process?
Hi,

This is a new cowl piece that I'm making for a WW2 Taylercraft L-2M.
1.jpg

In this photo, you can see the two weld bead directions. The discolored area is where I used Aluminum solder as a body filler.
2.jpg

The solder works well if I have an undercut from a weld or a surface imperfection.

I had a 1946 Fairchild 24 nose bowl, that was damaged by the customer. In areas with deep scratches, I would metal finish the best I could, then solder up the scratch. I would then metal finish the solder to the original surface.

This product is available from Kent White at TM Technologies.
http://www.tinmantech.com/products/b...x-core-rod.php

Here is a Youtube video, with Kent showing the application.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRWmpSE-hXk

Hope it helps.

Bill
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