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  #21  
Old 10-02-2009, 09:38 AM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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...I am happy to answer any questions any of you might have....
Welcome David. There won't be anyone beating you up here because it's not a 'traditional' hot rod.

I do have a question for you. In the build manual it shows your Polish guys building a rear fender by slapping the aluminum down over a hard solid male die while the edges are clamped.

What is the material your dies are made from? How did you make them. I'm impressed that your guys could make such a large panel in one piece. Obviously there is some welding of subpanels going on but still, that is a unique way (at least to me to shape the reverse.

Two of our members, Rick Tucker and Rhondo, stopped by your facility last year during the build of this car. I was impressed with the tour they were given. Your crew taking the time to do that certainly builds goodwill!

A few years back there was a guy named Chuck who scratch built a Cobra Coupe and documented the entire build. Unfortunately, AOL changed it's storage policy and the data is no longer available. A huge loss for the metalshaping community.
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  #22  
Old 10-02-2009, 10:34 AM
David Kirkham
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David I am very glad to have someone else who gas welds on here! seems like these forums are tig city.
I looked at the body section of your book and you and your guys metal finish stuff the way I was taught (and have taught others).

The way your panels are formed is, I believe, the way some Aston Martin panels used to be made in the DB- days. I use the wheeling machine in good old English tradition but I was aware of those machines and have seen pictures but never quite such detailed pictures, so that was very interesting.
We have a lot of polish people over here now but unfortunately I have not met any as skilled as your guys in panel beating or I would have hired them!.

Welcome to AllMetalShaping!

David
Gas welding has a couple of advantages over TIG. Gas welding is much, much faster. There is really no comparison in speed. Gas welding leaves a completely FLAT bead that is easy to file off. TIG leaves a big, hard bead. Gas welding leaves the aluminum much easier to shape after it is welded--in other words, the weld is much softer and not so likely to break as you straighten it.

We use TIG for small sized repair work or to finish off the end of the panel.

David

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  #23  
Old 10-02-2009, 10:40 AM
David Kirkham
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Originally Posted by Kerry Pinkerton View Post
Welcome David. There won't be anyone beating you up here because it's not a 'traditional' hot rod.

I do have a question for you. In the build manual it shows your Polish guys building a rear fender by slapping the aluminum down over a hard solid male die while the edges are clamped.

What is the material your dies are made from? How did you make them. I'm impressed that your guys could make such a large panel in one piece. Obviously there is some welding of subpanels going on but still, that is a unique way (at least to me to shape the reverse.

Two of our members, Rick Tucker and Rhondo, stopped by your facility last year during the build of this car. I was impressed with the tour they were given. Your crew taking the time to do that certainly builds goodwill!

A few years back there was a guy named Chuck who scratch built a Cobra Coupe and documented the entire build. Unfortunately, AOL changed it's storage policy and the data is no longer available. A huge loss for the metalshaping community.
Male or female form can be used. Usually we use a male form. You can make the die from just about anything--concrete, fiberglass, wood, "MIG wood (a phenolic laminate much like the linen based stuff we use here), steel, whatever.

We make them any number of ways--by hand, CNC, cast the concrete, whatever it takes to get the shape we want.

We use this method because it is MUCH faster. Also, we are able to make a much smoother car in the end than by using a wheel or some other method. Also, it doesn't require as much skill as the wheel or a Yoder. You can learn it pretty quickly if you are determined to make a good part. Granted, we have years of experience so we know where to hold things and where to hit things. We didn't make mirror bodies over night.

David


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  #24  
Old 10-02-2009, 02:47 PM
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I glanced at the book -- and then downloaded it. Printed via the color laser and 3-hole punched and placed in a binder. I have my reading material for the plane rides next week!

I'm definitely impressed by all the CAD work involved to create the chassis. And then the followup machining/fitment of everything -- this was a giant task without question. I'm getting involved with both of these as of late for upcoming projects and I will admit it is a large task to accomplish as well as getting a mindset to trust it will all work. (I'm used to the old world method of fabrication and forming)

Questions for David: (I haven't read the PDF's so hopefully the answers aren't already within)

1) What was the biggest mental obstacle in making the project happen?

2) New Technology -vs- Old World Craftsmanship -- what did you learn about the balance between the two and application thereof to upcoming projects?

Thanks for the book in PDF form -- it should be a good read!
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  #25  
Old 10-02-2009, 08:36 PM
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I glanced at the book -- and then downloaded it. Printed via the color laser and 3-hole punched and placed in a binder. I have my reading material for the plane rides next week!

I'm definitely impressed by all the CAD work involved to create the chassis. And then the followup machining/fitment of everything -- this was a giant task without question. I'm getting involved with both of these as of late for upcoming projects and I will admit it is a large task to accomplish as well as getting a mindset to trust it will all work. (I'm used to the old world method of fabrication and forming)

Questions for David: (I haven't read the PDF's so hopefully the answers aren't already within)

1) What was the biggest mental obstacle in making the project happen?

2) New Technology -vs- Old World Craftsmanship -- what did you learn about the balance between the two and application thereof to upcoming projects?

Thanks for the book in PDF form -- it should be a good read!
1: I really didn't have any mental obstacles. I just decided to do it and then refused to let failure get in the way. The most difficult problem to solve was the rear wheel well. Without that, the whole project would have sunk. We sweat that one for a long time and finally decided to just carve it out of a huge block of aluminum.

We used new technology where ever possible. The one thing in the project that impressed me the most was how everything fit together when we were done. CAD is amazing. I won't do another project without it.

David


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  #26  
Old 10-03-2009, 08:50 PM
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David, do your 'standard' cobras also use the 3/4 aluminum tube substructure?
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  #27  
Old 10-04-2009, 06:51 AM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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Gas welding has a couple of advantages over TIG. Gas welding is much, much faster. There is really no comparison in speed. Gas welding leaves a completely FLAT bead that is easy to file off. TIG leaves a big, hard bead. Gas welding leaves the aluminum much easier to shape after it is welded--in other words, the weld is much softer and not so likely to break as you straighten it.

We use TIG for small sized repair work or to finish off the end of the panel.

David

This is what I have been saying but I was a lone voice in the wilderness, its good to have someone else say the same thing. Especialy someone who can show the results you have.
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  #28  
Old 10-04-2009, 07:19 AM
David Gardiner David Gardiner is offline
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Originally Posted by David Kirkham View Post
Male or female form can be used. Usually we use a male form. You can make the die from just about anything--concrete, fiberglass, wood, "MIG wood (a phenolic laminate much like the linen based stuff we use here), steel, whatever.

We make them any number of ways--by hand, CNC, cast the concrete, whatever it takes to get the shape we want.

We use this method because it is MUCH faster. Also, we are able to make a much smoother car in the end than by using a wheel or some other method. Also, it doesn't require as much skill as the wheel or a Yoder. You can learn it pretty quickly if you are determined to make a good part. Granted, we have years of experience so we know where to hold things and where to hit things. We didn't make mirror bodies over night.

David



What you say is exactly right but of course it would not be economical to make one off parts or bodies in this way, which is where traditional methods like the wheeling machine ect. come in. These methods are perfect for low volume production, each part will be the same, less skilled labour, faster production but much higher initial set up costs. You also have the lower labour cost in Poland which makes these cars viable.

David
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  #29  
Old 10-04-2009, 11:21 AM
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David, do your 'standard' cobras also use the 3/4 aluminum tube substructure?
No. They are steel (or stainless, if the chassis is stainless).

On the billet car we used aluminum because the whole chassis was aluminum.

David

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  #30  
Old 10-04-2009, 11:22 AM
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This is what I have been saying but I was a lone voice in the wilderness, its good to have someone else say the same thing. Especialy someone who can show the results you have.
Gas welding is just superior for making cars. TIG is superior for fixing things. They each have their areas where they shine.

David

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