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  #11  
Old 10-20-2016, 05:28 PM
Charlie Myres Charlie Myres is offline
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Originally Posted by sblack View Post
I don't see how the owner of a car owns the shape of the car. If anyone does it is the designer, not the owner. If somebody takes a picture of the car and sells the image that is not theft from the car owner. There are some very strange ideas out there about IP.
Maybe the owner was less concerned about ownership and more concerned with preserving the market-value of his car.

A market flooded with replicas, may not have been to his liking,

Cheers Charlie
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2016, 05:37 PM
Charlie Myres Charlie Myres is offline
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Originally Posted by Arminius View Post
Thanks all for your suggestions, particularly the link you posted Kerry, I had missed that.

Mike would you mind just expanding on how you use the gridded background, I don't quite understand. The bridge is certainly a good idea.
Cliffrod described in one of his posts, how he uses two bridges parallel to the car with a moveable cross-bar. The cross bar has strings, which hang plumb, with non-damaging bobs on the end; each bob is lowered onto the shape to be measured.

When all the bobs have been set, the cross-bar is lifted off the bridges and rested on a vertical wall e.g. a sheet of MDF and the shape transferred to a sheet of paper pinned to the MDF. In this way each station on the bridges, is copied onto individual sheets of paper.

I think it is a brilliantly simple and cheap method and one I would use,

Cheers Charlie
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2016, 09:54 PM
SATAUS SATAUS is offline
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Hey Charlie is this what you are describing?
Something from Jamie Downie www.kustomgarage.com.au
I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this with you guys.









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  #14  
Old 10-20-2016, 11:31 PM
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Superleggera Superleggera is offline
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I wish I had thought of that above method!
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2016, 01:19 AM
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Z5Roadster Z5Roadster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sblack View Post
I don't see how the owner of a car owns the shape of the car. If anyone does it is the designer, not the owner. If somebody takes a picture of the car and sells the image that is not theft from the car owner. There are some very strange ideas out there about IP.
Think you might be missing the point on ownership, "I paid good money for it and I will chose what I will allow to be done with it", most customers will not allow any photos apart from the ones required to get his work done while it is in the care of a third party. Some of the cars never see the light of day and as far as I'm concerned respect others wishes. Could be related to marriage (admin delete last comment if I have overstepped the line)
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2016, 04:35 AM
Charlie Myres Charlie Myres is offline
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Originally Posted by SATAUS View Post
Hey Charlie is this what you are describing?
Something from Jamie Downie www.kustomgarage.com.au
I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this with you guys.
There is a name for a machine like that - something-graph. It looks to be very accurate and very well made.

Cliffrod's description is not a machine, but rather a bridge with strings at stations and plumb-bobs on the end of each string.

So for example, the bridge is at one of the stations marked on the car in the photo. Each string is adjusted until the plumb-bobs just touch the car; then the bridge is carried over to the paper chart and the points of the plumb-bobs are marked onto the paper and a line drawn joining the points; and then the station number is marked on the shape that is produced.

Then the bridge is taken back to the car to the next station and the process repeated.

Using something light and portable such as patio tube, would make for a sturdy bridge. Distance from the centre of the car, can be controlled with a parallel string-line set on stands, down near floor-level.
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2016, 06:55 AM
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Z5Roadster Z5Roadster is offline
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Take a look at my thread How to build a Buck, TheRodDoc Richard Crees give me stack of info on Measuring Bridges way back, sorry can't give you the link, poor wifi.http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showt...?t=1064&page=7

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Last edited by Z5Roadster; 10-22-2016 at 12:40 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2016, 08:17 AM
StingRay StingRay is offline
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The days of controlling the shapes data like that are gone. 3D scanners are everywhere. I have a small one that attaches to an Ipad. It's not going to collect the kind of data for that kind of thing yet but give it a few years and every smart phone will have the technology. It'll just be a 3D Photo. Your kids and grand kids will look at a 2D image like it's an 8 track tape, video tape or an LP.

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Originally Posted by Superleggera View Post
I once had to create a buck but the owner of the original vehicle (worth $25M+) was adamant that no computers could be utilized due to possibility of the data being sold for $$$$, easily transferred (free to friends) or him seeing bad replicas built by others using the shape of his automobile.

Thus we used lasers (w/levels) to project grids upon the car. Low tack tape used to block reference lines. Then utilized wood stations (vertical and horizontal) that we constructed that were backfilled with wood blocks (screws) that came within 1/4-5/8ths inch of the bodywork itself. Then plasticene (waterless) clay was used to grab the final shape itself between the tape line and the wood block station fixture. Wood fixture stations w/clay removed carefully and the shapes were transferred to sheets of heavy paper stock with black marker pen by tracing. Recycle the clay and repeat at next measured and taped reference location. I used kitchen plastiwrap beneath the low tack tape to keep the plasticene clay from getting wedged into door gaps, hood vents, louvers, etc. Horizontal was a challenge because of reaching across the vehicle itself. Remember you only need to do typically 50% of the vehicle.

Was it a fast method of doing. No. Did it work? Yes. We hired a professional detailer once completed to fully detail the car when finished of any possible residue or contamination. It was Pebble Beach ready to be honest before and after we finished.

Paper pattern shapes were transferred to wood buck. Then all the "data paper patterns" were burned and visually recorded while doing. Once the aluminum bodywork was built for the sister vehicle that had the same style coachwork originally, the buck itself was doused in diesel and burned and visually recorded in doing. The data / shapes are now lost again to future generations. Both owners are happy.

Unfortunately I know of several vehicles that were 3D scanned and the data ended up going out the backdoor (restoration shop employee and a 3D scanning shop) and resold/freebie to others without owners or restoration shops permission or knowledge. Not cool.

"Ethics" is something that is never discussed at times when it comes to the world of recreating automobile shapes and what happens with the bucks, 3D data or CAD models themselves.
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2016, 03:52 PM
Arminius Arminius is offline
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Thanks guys, plenty of useful ideas here. Much appreciated!
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