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  #11  
Old 06-22-2017, 09:42 AM
mastuart mastuart is offline
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Will are the tools attached to the arbor? What are they press into on the bottom? Is it used like I have seen at Oblong but with bigger tooling?

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  #12  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:13 PM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffrod View Post
Will, i think that comment was directed at the Bonny Doon kit. It costs as much as one of Peter's HandBuilt English Wheels!!...... PatMan's kit isn't that expensive, is it?
Yes, directed towards the Bonny Doon kit for nearly $3600. With the 2 vertical members so close together I think it would be very limited as far as automotive use goes……. but maybe OK for jewelry. Also even though the ultimate pressure would be higher, hand pumping a bottle jack is slow compared what you could do by hand with a arbor press. ~ John Buchtenkirch

P.S. Below is some stainless ducting for the Osprey I trued up in a hydraulic press. I powered the ram with a 2 speed log splitter pump. It ran fast till it had a load on it, then slowed as the pressure increased. Worked out surprisingly well for the job.
A res#1.jpg
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  #13  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:53 PM
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RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
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Mark

The upper dies do attach to the arbor press, and to me it is just like at Oblong, only with larger dies, The bottom is a 4" diameter piece of nylon?. I just ordered another one from Carey Culpepper to make an additional lower for my newer arbor press. I have been pretty impressed with what can be done with this set up. It just is not fast!
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2017, 02:55 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Buchtenkirch View Post
Yes, directed towards the Bonny Doon kit for nearly $3600. With the 2 vertical members so close together I think it would be very limited as far as automotive use goes……. but maybe OK for jewelry. Also even though the ultimate pressure would be higher, hand pumping a bottle jack is slow compared what you could do by hand with a arbor press. ~ John Buchtenkirch

P.S. Below is some stainless ducting for the Osprey I trued up in a hydraulic press. I powered the ram with a 2 speed log splitter pump. It ran fast till it had a load on it, then slowed as the pressure increased. Worked out surprisingly well for the job.
Attachment 42197
Nice solution, JB.
Good to see.
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  #15  
Old 06-22-2017, 07:14 PM
mastuart mastuart is offline
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Will thanks for the reply . Reading other posts it sounds like you can shrink With a tuck puck does it stretch in the middle and shrink the outer edge? How would it work with an urethane pad . What hardness urethane ? Would the pad need to be contained like the shot bag at Oblong? Wheels in my head are turning!

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  #16  
Old 06-23-2017, 09:32 AM
patman patman is offline
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Hey guys, the arbor press is a very overlooked tool! I started making the tooling after I had a guy in the shop for a metal shaping class. In his working carrier he had used up his shoulders and the replacements! He did not have the range of motion to swing a hammer, so as we know the metal does not care how the force is applied. I talk to him about twice a month, and he sends me pictures of his retirement project, a jalopy race car that he has had in his head for years. What I use this set up for is stump shrinking in slow motion, but it's not that slow when you can place each tuck exactly where you want it. Now I about all I am short to be a TWA board member is a powered shrinker lol but for certain parts by the time I set up a power machine I am about half done with it in the arbor press. The tooling set that I make is $400 and the tooling can be used as post dollies and also fits the larger set and stand that I make I will put some info in the classified section seven I get my poop in a group. I am fat thumbing through this on my phone, I will post some pictures of what the guys have done here in the shop when I figure it out how from the phone.
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2017, 04:30 PM
patman patman is offline
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Ok pictures as promised

Here is a Model A fender the guys made in a class here at the shop. The whole outside piece was shrunk on the arbor press and the tail was linear stretched with a hammer on the stump. You can see some faint little rings on the top of the fender, that is where the fender was domed up just a little bit and then shrunk to meet the outside piece.
18198208_795884020569760_6441391539594362253_n.jpg
Tested and John approved
17626488_776508189174010_1451671347809998623_n.jpg

17795957_781572188667610_3851691896005473260_n.jpg
Here is a section of the midget tail that was made at the last Redneck Round up class, the top edge was shrunk in the arbor press just very simply and very quickly
18622277_809410419217120_142353924283366480_n.jpg

17021687_761534414004721_7081526342638665000_n.jpg
Here Kansas Jeff and James are checking the fit of the top of the quarter panel shrunk in the arbor press, Shrinking and smoothing only took about 20 minutes.
17554442_776508479173981_5303186289005405173_n.jpg

The arbor press is a very over looked tool, you are limited on throat depth but if you can find a larger press you can do a lot of things with it! Another great thing is you can fabra-cobble all sorts of stuff together very quickly to get through a tough spot in a job.
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  #18  
Old 06-24-2017, 07:33 PM
luscten luscten is offline
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Is there any videos demonstrating this process?
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:25 PM
mark g mark g is offline
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I have two arbor presses that I acquired for exactly this kind of work. One is a large 12ton Greenerd No. 5 with a 13" throat, and the other is a 5 ton Weaver "Motor Service Press" that has a nice set up with both rack and pinion and acme screw. The nice thing about the Weaver is that the acme screw can be used to set and limit the depth of the ram. After the rack and pinion bottoms out the acme screw can be adjusted further to a set point. It's nice for making consistent, uniform passes. Also for uniform point bending of pipe and flat stock into rings or arches.

I haven't found it to be prohibitively slow. I rigged the Greenerd up in a way that did away with the big counter balanced lever and made it foot actuated. I need to refine that aspect of the set up but it works, and shapes 16 ga stainless very easily with the same UHMW and steel dies that I use on air power hammer and reciprocating machine. I think of it as being as fast as using a mallet and stump for roughing thicker gauges or bronze that work hardens quickly. I set them up with a tool post typical to an APH and use cupped upper dies over domed lowers usually.

Last edited by mark g; 06-24-2017 at 09:28 PM.
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2017, 09:53 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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The method was published early as "low pressure press forming" in sept? 2009 street Rodder magazine. Doing a quick search, I didnt see any videos a few minutes ago.

The process doesn't take much to explain or do. The arbor is used to press the metal, creating a small (if done gently) wrinkle- much like you do when you create a wrinkle or tuck using a hammer and a stump. The press is then used to gently press the wrinkle flat- much like you do with a hammer and a stump. The difference is being able to create/place the wrinkle with exact precision vs swing a hammer and getting close but maybe not always perfect placement. Little wrinkles are all you want.

Having a hard and soft surface will guide how the wrinkle and flattening progresses. I cut a steel ring but never got around to making a small sandbag or shot bag for mine. I have one of Carey's TuckPucks (thank you, Carey!). A piece of 2x4 works fine, too. I made my steel head, slight dome, from a piece of scrap steel shaped on the grinder & beltsander that is welded to homemade square tubing with small bolt and brazed nut used to hold it on the arbor shaft. The cool thing is being able to easily place and even stack up shrinks very accurately.

Squeezing between two hard surfaces will stretch the metal..

You can also use a hard tool on the shaft with adjustable outriggers (such as two pieces of scrap angle iron simply laid upon a piece of scrap 1" plate steel) to very accurately bend an even curve in heavy material. This is how I bent up the 1/4" plate steel pieces for my HandBuilt English wheel stand on my 2 ton press. Very simple to do and very simple to overdo.. I had to correct a number of over-bends during the process.

You will need to planishing or wheel to smooth the part after forming is done. It's not like smoothing a bag of walnuts, but the overall part will need to be smoothed. You can get it close on the arbor press if you're patient, but it's more practical to finalize it elsewhere.

My 2 ton has a square shaft. The older and larger 3 ton has a round shaft so I figured to make an adapter so all the tooling would fit both. That midget rear section above in PatMan's pics was done on Will's very small (1/2 ton? maybe 6" throat) arbor press. You don't need a monster tonnage press to do this work.

The control is great. No noise. Tooling is not fussy. And the slow aspect is more relevant to production work in comparison to reciprocating machines. For many things, I think mere mortals will find equitable results for a fraction of the price and shop space.
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