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  #21  
Old 05-28-2017, 08:46 AM
longyard longyard is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter Tommasini View Post
1938 Alfa as the same (or Similar) Body ( swage) line did one no long ago
Peter

How did you form it Peter?
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2017, 03:51 PM
elavir elavir is offline
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Hi Bill, very impressive project.

Cheers Richard.
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2017, 07:37 PM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Originally Posted by longyard View Post
How did you form it Peter?
Bill
when forming something like that you need to find out first the over all sweep of the panel ..in another words (how much doe it go around) is the sweep flat? or just a little shape over the length of the panel ? Once that is established
you need to wheel the panel and put the bulbous shape in it first .......... so this is how I done it.....
clearly mark where the little return shape is on your blank, also mark where the top of the swage is, wheel the shape in to it, but keep away from where the return is, move the panel on to where the top of the swage is and wheel there as well but keep away from the area where the bottom of the swage is
here a sample oooooxoxooooo wheel on the O stay away from the X
MEANING...... that the X is where the two returns are, where the O is... that where you wheel
once that is done simply make the top return by folding the panel on the folder (or by hand) to the shape by using a wooden rod the right size ( broom handle or something similar) that will allow you to put the first return in, then turn the panel around and make the swage by using a rod of the same thickness once that is done put the panel back on the folder and create the bottom of the panel (in your case I think it's square?).....if not repeat the same technique as the top
this process will allow you to make the panels in one piece.... if not? make the swage using the same method and weld it on to the panel.

On the front guard where the same swage goes around the wheel arch... well that needs to be done by hand by stretching the top of the swage (only) that will automatically will stert to create the two returns but you would need to help the returns with a round rod ..... do that bit by bit.... meaning,,,, block the swage then on a sand bag create the return repeat this a few time till most of the shape is in, then simply make a tool about 10 mm wide and put the panel trough a Pullmax to clean all up
Peter
,
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  #24  
Old 06-03-2017, 02:02 PM
Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
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Bill,
As I had commented on another site, I agree with Peter that you need to determine the sweep before proceeding as it will tell you if it need be shaped before swaging.

Using a bead roller would be my preference over a Pullmax. If your panel will not fit in your machine, I would consider making rollers that could be adapted to your e-wheel.

As for welding edges, I would not suggest that method. For the many years that I have been repairing coachbuilt cars, I have found it rare to see panels that are edge welded. Some reasons are: possible poor penetration, difficult to clean flux on an interior tight corner or fold, very difficult to correct profile or shape if heat distortion, any hammering will thin the edge and the heat of welding will reduce the strength of the line which often adds structure to the panel. If the panel is made well (stable) you should have no issue of welding in the flat open areas. If piecing the panel is necessary, I would not be afraid to weld in the crown above or in the flat below. British and Italian coachbuilders were generally not shy about welding pieces together to create some beautifully shaped panels.

Looks like a fun project.
Rick
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  #25  
Old 06-04-2017, 12:19 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longyard View Post
Wm,
This reveal line is not flowing as per Touring factory manufacture, seeing as that hiccups back there.

I was able to solve nearly all of their moves on the Touring metalwork- even when it took me some months of casual scrutiny.

Welds are where you expect and sometimes they are not. And then again, welds can be hidden so well that it takes a magnifier, a mirror and bright intense light to find them. By way of confirmation I duplicated the parts using their methods.

I've restored a lot of cars, Eropean and domestic, including one-offs, prototypes, and very limited production. The 1908 Petit Pur Sang was interesting, along with tearing down a Royale and inspecting a Type 50, closely. The McClure Halley car was a "wow." The Alfa 2.3MM, the J-120 .... The GTL s/n 0001 - more education . All different styles, different types of metalwork .... amazing skill and craftsmanship.

I enjoy opening up an original car and finding the clues to its manufacture. I also enjoy seeing the many variations in metal parts creation.

I think of all the cars I have restored, helped restore, or provided sections for and the one that had the most detail in the metal and the most overall accuracy and the most refinement in the design and execution ..... was the Touring Barchetta. Aston Superleggeras are close seconds, very close - but lack that delicate detail.

I spoke to Anderloni about this Barchetta delicate accuracy and detail one time, at Monterey Historics, and he agreed with me on this. But one should remember that the competition Barchettas were upholstered in metal, while the street cars were done in leather and carpet.
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The comp cars had the detail on display.
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s/n 0010, Jim Kimberly's car.
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  #26  
Old 06-04-2017, 07:23 AM
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RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
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I really like that kind of work shown here.

Thanks, Kent
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  #27  
Old 06-04-2017, 08:31 AM
Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
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I agree with Kent. I too have had the unique privilege of working on some very rare vehicles. The first thing that I do once a coachbuilt car in my shop has been stripped down is to examine how it was constructed. There is so much to learn. I examine the placement of welds and evaluate how the panels were shaped, the method of shaping and the welding skills themselves. Everyone brings a slightly different technique or style. Just knowing the period and country that the car was built usually reveals the equipment available which often explains the techniques. That is one of the most enjoyable aspect of my job. I am always learning .

Rick
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  #28  
Old 06-04-2017, 03:23 PM
longyard longyard is offline
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Peter, Kent, and Rick,

Thank-you so much for all this wonderful information, photos, and suggestions you've given me. I am ingesting it all and it is helping me "backwards engineer" the 166.

I'm going to be in Milan in November, and I hope to meet Andersoli's son and ask him direct questions about the construction technique of the car. Until then, your expert guidance and experience serves to keep the project moving along.

I began to shape the nose this weekend, and, predictably, worked myself into some corners. Getting out of those corners is where the real learning begins, and I am doing that.

Mark Savory has BLESSED me with many construction photos, but Kent, your photos are also very helpful. Can you post others? I've also carefully reviewed your Ferrari rebuild section in the Tim Barton books and learned a lot from those.

THANK-YOU all. I am grateful, I am needful, I am moving forward thanks to you.
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  #29  
Old 06-04-2017, 07:01 PM
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racer-john racer-john is offline
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Default Ferrari 166 Replica

Nice project Bill, I'll be watching your progress.
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  #30  
Old 06-04-2017, 07:42 PM
mastuart mastuart is offline
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Hey Bill Are you willing To show some of the corners you worked your way into? Lots of us learn from this type of stuff. My project has lots of that I eventually figured out. I have not had any problems lately because I haven't worked on it in some time now.

Mark
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