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  #31  
Old 10-10-2014, 08:40 AM
Kerry Pinkerton's Avatar
Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Marcus, you are really cranking on this build. Is your target date for project completion next week? Great tips on the frame building and keeping things straight.
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  #32  
Old 10-10-2014, 05:02 PM
markyouel markyouel is offline
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Hey Marcus
thanks for posting this great build! Any wonder your bowl/hubcap came out so well (and mine came out like ).
Very well thought out and executed ... and how come your workshop is so neat...where is all the grime, dirt and stuff to trip over, the lost important pieces covered up by useless un-needed horded junk .. oh wait, that's my workshop
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  #33  
Old 10-10-2014, 07:11 PM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Don't be deceived as I am a very slow and methodical worker. I am just posting this build, when I have a moment, of what I already have done in the last few years! Been taking a while as been trying to sort and only using every third or forth picture to not make to big a thread here. Actually quicker to add all the detail I already have if that is alright? Yesterdays posts and todays will give you an idea of what my full posts are like. If that is OK, will continue with that.


After taking out the twist that this frame rail had, I found it was 3mm-1/8" higher than the other side now. So to level it I used a technique used often in bridge straightening. To bring it down, most of the heat needs to end up at the bottom so it shrinks more once cooled. So you start at the top of the triangle and weave your torch slowly to the wider part as shown. Do both sides straight after each other and then the bottom flange. This site tells you all about how to do it. http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/bridge/steel/02.cfm


Got the frame dead level and square to the millimetre by measuring corner to corner. Make sure the rails are exactly the same length too. I noticed that mine were 3mm-1/8" different even before I started altering them. They were still that much out once I had made all my alterations, so I shortened one to match the other BEFORE laying any of the suspension points etc out. It is also important to run a string line right up the middle of the frame and measure off to each side along points to make sure there is no bow in the frame any where. You can have a frame measure square and still have a bow in a rail. I have gotten mine to 1.5mm accuracy off the centreline, so pretty happy with that.


The V6 version of the Grand Cherokee donor does not come with the stiffening bar between the upper suspension mounts, but my 5.7 Hemi does. I decided to stiffen it up even more by adding a second one as well. I may still plate these to make them even stronger, or make whole new ones depending on the clearance once everything is in place. In the mean time it shows at least that the distance the mounts are apart is still at factory specification. They fit right on without any levering needed.


Added the final brackets that I had removed from the donor that hold the rear panhard/trackbar in place. It bolts into 5 places, the same as stock.


Here is that cross member I made out of two stock Willys ones earlier, now tacked into place between the coil mounts.
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Last edited by Gojeep; 10-10-2014 at 07:17 PM.
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  #34  
Old 10-10-2014, 07:13 PM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Time to add the front cradle. Front mounts for this were already installed before I plated the rails you might remember. So bolted in the front and then made sure the frame was square to the centreline.


The rear mounts are quite a bit lower than the Willys frame rails and are inboard.


This is the rear mounts inside the Grand frame rails that I had cut out.


I cut and made the pieces of the donors frame rails to fit, but didn't like the way it looked at all. So pulled out some of the original Willys suspension mounts to see if they could be utilised.


Choose the original leaf spring mounts that were on this part of the frame originally and cut them to length after removing the original rivets that held them together. Thought this suited the frame better seeing this mount will be visible behind the front wheel under the guard.


Then folded up some plate to follow the shape of the mounts so they could extend from outside the frame, to the inside and over the cradle mounts. Got one done and now making the second one the same.


Folds match the mount well enough considering just done in a vice with a hammer.


Here you can see the mount come out over the cradle. Part of the donor mount sits inside it to check its position before being welded in later. This makes it mount in exactly the same way as in the donor.


Blasted the old leaf spring mount with garnet inside and out before welding some of it together. Not sure if I will add the original rivet heads into the old holes or not. Might make the contrast of old and new a bit much.
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  #35  
Old 10-10-2014, 07:23 PM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markyouel View Post
Hey Marcus
thanks for posting this great build! Any wonder your bowl/hubcap came out so well (and mine came out like ).
Very well thought out and executed ... and how come your workshop is so neat...where is all the grime, dirt and stuff to trip over, the lost important pieces covered up by useless un-needed horded junk .. oh wait, that's my workshop
Ha ha, I have a bit of OCD so try to keep thing neat and tidy! All the left over parts etc for later in the build, are in another garage and shed that I built just for it all! That way I can make the most of the space I have as only live on a tiny block of land that is 485 sq. meters or 5220 sq. feet. 2 bedroom old house I think is less than my shed space. Have no backyard as taken over by workshop which is on the fence line on two sides there and attached to the house on 2 sides too. Less time then needed to mow and weed and more time in the workshop.
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Last edited by Gojeep; 10-10-2014 at 07:25 PM.
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  #36  
Old 10-11-2014, 06:08 AM
steve.murphy steve.murphy is offline
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Marcus,
That is some really good work you're doing.
I recall reading about your cherokee a few years back.
I had a 47 CJ2 Jeep and a truck like this one so I am following with interest.

Regards, Steve
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  #37  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:32 PM
Stilettoman Stilettoman is offline
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Default Flame Straightening

"So to level it I used a technique used often in bridge straightening. To bring it down, most of the heat needs to end up at the bottom so it shrinks more once cooled. So you start at the top of the triangle and weave your torch slowly to the wider part as shown."

In the late 1950s I took a materials course at the University of Washington, taught by a Professor Holt. His father had actually invented the process you described, and Holt and his father had done some testing and experimenting to determine the optimum heating patterns and techniques for plate, I-beams, Tubes etc. In the early 1950s a log jam came down river and severely damaged a highway bridge. The Holts bid on the repair, and as their bid was by far the cheapest, got the contract. After several weeks of flame bending, the bridge was repaired, but the state refused to pay the agreed price because "you didn't replace any structure, and your only cost was a few tanks of oxygen and acetylene." I don't recall the outcome of the lawsuit.

In about 1959 a fire damaged a large airplane hangar at McChord AFB near Tacoma. The inspectors said it was not repairable, tear it down. Professor Holt inspected the structure and made a bid to repair it -this time with an iron-clad contract. For several weeks he spent his weekends climbing around in the roof structure, making those little wiggly lines with his chalk, and then his welder would spend the week straightening the beams.

Numerous technical papers have been written over the years regarding heat straightening of beams and in ship building, but all of these papers are dated long after the Holts developed the process in the 1940s, and their names are mostly not mentioned.

You seem to be really serious about that Jeep you are building - nice work.
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  #38  
Old 10-12-2014, 03:13 AM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Great to hear the feed back from you both and the history too. I try when possible to give where I learnt something too. I already knew about the procedure coming from the structural steel industry many years ago as a boiler maker, but looked for a reference to refresh myself and show others more information.

I had already skipped over this next detail but will add it now due to the interest shown in the builds different aspects that I have been covering. This was before I even owned a mig or many metal working tools for that matter, but shows others in a similar position maybe what can still be done.


This is the mount for the upper wishbone as well as the coil over. It went from the Grand Cherokee uni-body frame to the inner guard. The right side of it was where the front guard bolted on.


As I cannot attach to the inner guard of the Willys due to having a separate frame, the two mounts will be braced across the engine bay to each other instead. So I cut off what was not needed but left an extra inch out from the coil over bolt area. This did make it look rather bad though with the pressed up part sticking out and open. Also the flared edge just terminates halfway along.


To improve the look of the pressed part that goes over the top of the shock pin, I decided the bring it down the same as the first half to close it up.


Flipped the pattern over making sure it was centred between the coil over bolt holes and at the same angle.


Using my new airsaw, cut the piece out


Continuing the flare along the edge was rather difficult as the HSLC steel has a 50% greater yield strength and requires 40% more force to form it. Even harder on the sections that were double thickness.
So I clamped it in my vice and then pushed the hole mount to flare it bit by bit. Did this over the whole edge around three times to get it where it matched the factory flare. When going back over, made sure it was always between where I clamped it last to make it smoother. Had to use a 18" shifter in some places too.


A small amount of hammer work was needed for the final finishing. Then arc welded the edge where it was double layered.


The top piece was pulled down and the end of it bent up a bit just using vice grips and hammering in the curve.


Welded the join closed except for the last bit which I could get the shape I was after yet as quite hard to move it cold. Hard to weld as the steel is galvanized and a bit thin for my arc welder, but very solid all the same.
While it was still hot from the welding, I was able to get the bend I was after using a cold chisel and hammering across where I wanted the bend and then peening over the edge just using a rod.


Can see here how it looks much better with the flare continued all round and the open end closed up.


The flaring of the edge also stiffens up the whole mount considerably which is why the factory did the first part which was not part of the inner guard.


This part now finished and how you would have seen it added to the frame rails.
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  #39  
Old 10-12-2014, 03:27 AM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Thought I will step back to show how I modified the donor engine cradle that holds the front diff, lower suspension arms, steering rack and swaybar. Where the Willys differs from most donors of later years is that the front axle is a lot further forward in the engine bay. You see many swaps to later frames and running gear and the wheels end up way too close to the firewall and at the back of the wheel arch. I really think it looks funky not having the wheels centred in the wheel arch.

So I worked out that I need to move the front suspension forward. or engine back, 175mm /7" to center it while still leaving the engine the same distance off the firewall. The engine bay is already shorter than the donor so needed every inch I could get. Before I removed the engine mounts, I made up this little jig to make it easier to setup the new ones. They tilt 5.5 degrees back and are different heights left to right to match the mounts on the block, so felt this was the way to go.


Removed the engine mounts and mocked up the front cradle 175 mm further forward than it was before. Good news was that the oil filter change of position cleared the steering rack easily. It used to face 90* forward but removed that part of the mount so the filter could screw directly to the block.


Even with the steering shaft roughly in place, there is still plenty of clearance around the oil filter.


The only thing I ran into was making sure the left engine mount cleared the diff support bracket.


Got to make sure the new engine mount does not interfere with the front diff pinion support inside this bracket.


I set the floor and firewall up in place to make sure previous measurements were correct. They were exactly right but it was still nice to confirm before I go welding in the engine mounts in next.
Also checked the radiator position to see how it would all fit within the engine bay.
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Invention is a combination of brains and materials.
The more brains you use, the less materials you need.
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  #40  
Old 10-12-2014, 03:30 AM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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I setup my engine mount jig 175mm further back so the engine sits the same distance off the firewall but centres the front axle in the wheel wells. Had to raise it 3/4" above the what it was in the sub frame originally to clear the diff mount, but is still an 1" lower compared to the original floor height.
Having it this far back will give much better front to rear weight balance for better handling as well.


Good old OJ carton use to make a template for the new mounts.


Knew it would come in handy one day. Brought this home when doing the structural steel work on the Hoppers Crossing College back in 1986! Bit overkill being 102x150x6 mm RHS ( 4"x6"x1/4" ) but had the perfect internal size to match the engine mounts on the block.
Who would have thought that one end of this would be holding up a college building, and the other a HEMI!


Clean up the tubing and placed my template over it. Made sure the bolt hole on each side matched perfectly.


Don't own a oxy or a plasma, so out with the 9" grinder.


Fitting up nicely.




On to the other side. Healthy Choice meal box this time.


Just managed to squeeze in the other side from the same piece of RHS ( Rectangle Hollow Section ) tubing.






Tacked in ready to make sure the jig was accurate before welding it in.


Fitted like a glove and just pushed the bolts through with my finger.


Other side. Haven't gone for anything fancy as impossible to see them once installed in the Willys. Strong and functional though.


Now ready to fully weld in.


Welded in with my old copper core arc welder.
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