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  #31  
Old 08-24-2019, 06:10 PM
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neilb neilb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry Pinkerton View Post
I get that you don't get it, but please accept that some folks do and there are lots of ways to shape metal and no single way is the 'right way' or the 'only way'.
i'm not saying it's the wrong way, but while we are talking about it lets talk about it and see what can be done with it, where it's limitations are (if any), any issues arising in any situations. there are literally hundreds of people registered on this site and i would imagine dozens that use the FSP, around 20 people regularly post and fewer than that post pictures so lets get posting people. i would say everybody has a camera on their mobile phone! the paper pattern has been used since the start so that's about 100 years, everybody has seen what can and has been done using paper patterns.
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  #32  
Old 08-24-2019, 07:06 PM
Charlie Myres Charlie Myres is offline
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I am a novice in this dept, so I have watched many videos of people making paper patterns and FSP's.

The paper patterns I have made, have been very easy and quick to do and where to shrink or stretch, becomes evident as soon as one makes it.

Years ago I watched Wray make an FSP; I admire the man's creativity and lateral thinking, but the first thing that sprang to mind, was the time required to make one. At the end of the video Wray mentioned how cheap it was to make an FSP; so I googled the type of tape he recommended and found that where I live, it is not cheap at all.

In the E-type series, he mentions that FSP's don't keep for very long and need to be kept in a cool dark room.

So advantages and disadvantages for myself acknowledging that most of us have different circumstances.

Paper Quick and easy to make. FSP time consuming
Paper cheap. FSP more expensive.
Paper depending on its quality has a long life. FSP less life-span.
Storage - both require cool, dry, dark areas. Paper can be folded and stored flat. FSP tape could be damaged by creasing if folded or squashed.
Reversibility - both can be used for LH and RH panels.
Information - paper, notes can be written on it, cuts mean stretch; puckers mean shrink. FSP, notes can be written on it; shape helps spacial understanding.

So for me it comes down to simplicity, time and longevity and I choose paper,

Cheers Charlie
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  #33  
Old 08-25-2019, 09:11 AM
sblack sblack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilb View Post
I'm happy you guys all love him, great it's nice to see. like I said it's not for me.

I would rather make the panel with the least amount of effort, rather than making a barrel then stretching the edges out to loose the shape that was just put in. seems counter intuitive to me.

happy shaping

When Fay Butler makes a fender, he rolls it into a barrel because it is easier to shriinnk on the yoder. When he is done hammering the part is all out of shape and he has to straighten it out. But he is bending only, not shrinking or stretching. Exactly the same thing. Anyway we are all free to do what we want, but don't knock if you don't understand it.
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  #34  
Old 08-25-2019, 09:37 AM
vroom vroom is offline
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So here is a dumb question. How do you make a flexible shape pattern when you don't have a shape?
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  #35  
Old 08-25-2019, 11:23 AM
Joe Swamp Joe Swamp is offline
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I'm not sure that you can -- you need to tape the FSP over a shape in order to capture it, and you also need to make the profile gauges. When I took Wray's class we made 1920s fenders for a car where the originals had been lost, and we used a fender buck sculpted out of wire mesh/foam/bondo. Of course once you had the FSP and gauges you theoretically wouldn't need the buck anymore. Only one buck had to be made because the FSPs could be flipped inside out.

Remember that the FSP only captures half of the information: the shrinking/stretching changes in the sheet metal. The profile gauges are just as important as they tell you how the metal must be bent.

One of the judgement calls an expert metalshaper makes is knowing when to bend the metal vs knowing when to shrink/stretch the metal to make it fit the buck. The nice thing about the FSP is that it solves this problem -- once the FSP fits, then only bending is required to make the piece fit.
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Last edited by Joe Swamp; 08-25-2019 at 11:27 AM.
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  #36  
Old 08-29-2019, 10:14 PM
keith keith is offline
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I've watched Wray, Kerry and several others since the beginning of this Century using FSPs. I've seen it in person, pictures and dvd's. I've used it with success in my opinion making simple rust repair parts.

But this December I'm going to Wray's Coachbuilding Class and am excited to see it in use on a larger scale than the small repairs I do. I also like the way he uses cardboard templates now. I remember shearing pieces and then shrinking and stretching them to fit. That sometimes took longer than making the repair part.

I do like to look at wooden bucks, they are pieces of art in my eyes, but I don't see myself ever doing anything like that. I use paper sometimes,but prefer the FSP.


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