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  #11  
Old 05-21-2017, 11:45 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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Again, thank you for serving.

The skills you wield are much more important than the tools you own. And there's a BIG difference between hobby and income work.

My studio experience may provide worthwhile for you but is not specific to metal shaping. I'm glad to share opinions and insight via email if you want. I turned 50 last month and have been my family's primary income as a full time sculptor since 2000.

If so, bump me an email off forum. If not, no problem.
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:23 PM
cvairwerks cvairwerks is offline
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Something to consider Drew: Order you a small leather bag, a couple of the jeweler hammers and a good pair of snips, a couple of small dollies and some decent sized candles. You should be able to come up with plenty of Coke cans that you can use for practice. With aluminum that thin, it doesn't take much force to form and a candle should be enough to anneal when required. The whole batch of tools would fit in a small bag and only be a couple of pounds. It would be pretty easy to work on various forming processes and develop your skills while you are in the sandbox, and not have a big expense or lots to drag home when the time comes.
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2017, 01:10 PM
Michael Moore Michael Moore is offline
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I'm going to offer some first-hand "Debbie Downer" comments.

A lot of people seem to get the bug to make money with their hobby. I think many of them quickly find that 1) they can't work fast enough to make even minimum wage, 2) they can't work well enough to make things that people are willing to pay decent money for, 3) doing their hobby day in and day out on a commercial business ruins the hobby for them, 4) they are not cut out to be entrepreneurs, 5) they really hate dealing with customers, and there are probably another few things you can add to the list.

Keep all of that in mind. Maybe you'll be one of the few who can put in 10 years of work to become an "overnight sensation".

I learned that my building stuff for other people was not a good idea. I've built some nice motorcycles (ground up race bikes) for myself, but I lack the discipline to grind out something for someone else, so after a couple of experiences I vowed to not do that again. "Buddy" fun jobs that take an hour or two are different.

My wife has jewelry/lapidary as one of her hobbies and she's seen a lot of people who think they are going to do that and make part time money and are quickly disillusioned. I think if you are going to be making things, your best bet is to find a niche where you are selling higher-end stuff to people who have money. Don't try to make money creating ear rings that sell for $10 to compete with those of similar price being churned out by the tens of thousands overseas, spend the same amount of time making something with precious metals/stones that someone wants to pay you $10K for.

If you are thinking about an artistic niche, make sure you have some real talent and that your art is something that has people interested in buying it.

My experience in vintage/racing motorcycles is that there are a lot of people with little money and they'll snivel over extremely reasonable prices for things ("but I only paid $5 for it in 1965, why do you want $150 for a new part made in 2016?"). I suspect the auto/restoration field is no different.

You don't mention your background -- have you run your own business in the past? If not, look into the material/advice available from the Small Business Adminstration or find an "entrepreneur club" for support.

Don't forget that a 40 hour work week is very possibly going to result in 20 hours of actual billable work, with the other 20 hours being spent on overhead activities. One of the things you must budget into that 40 hours is time to find new customers, especially when you are getting started. The world is not going to beat a path to your workshop door if they never hear about you.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot to be said for having a small side business if you don't have to depend on it to put food on the table. But there's a lot of people every year with good skills/preparation that still manage to go bust pretty quickly. Sometimes that is due to things out of their control -- the local/national economy tanking, natural catastrophes, etc.

Go into it with lots of planning and your eyes open, maybe you'll be one of the few that not only makes some money but doesn't dread getting up every morning to deal with the business.

cheers,
Michael
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  #14  
Old 05-21-2017, 04:44 PM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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Wow, ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I couldn’t have said it any better.
My shorter version………. because of the sense of accomplishment it’s a very easy business / craft to fall in love with but a very tuff business to make decent $$$ at.

I made better money as a heavy man in the auto body trade and also doing fabrication work. ~ John Buchtenkirch
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Last edited by John Buchtenkirch; 05-21-2017 at 05:33 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-21-2017, 10:10 PM
Michael Moore Michael Moore is offline
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John, I think that for many of us who've had day jobs but wanted to work in the hobby interest area, if we want some more income we'd do WAY better to just go in for some overtime.

My wife also likes to bake fancy desserts. She's had some classes for "non-professionals" at the California Culinary Academy, and that opened her eyes to the difference between cooking for fun and cooking to earn a living. She's had people tell her "oh, you should do this as a business" and her response was "do you think I'm crazy/stupid? I can't make 40 of these cakes a day in a short amount of time to where I might earn minimum wage, especially if I've got to do it 5 days a week all year long."

Working for money, a great way to destroy an enjoyable hobby.

I'll note that I do know people who have done what they liked and made a living doing it, but they've told me that sometimes that was a pretty meager living.

The best plan is probably to be independently wealthy and then do what you like to do. For the rest of the people the adage that "they call it work because you don't enjoy it" is probably pretty accurate.

Another anecdote: my wife and I took an introductory Chinese brush painting class from a retired Bechtel engineer who had his own studio. He told us that a client came in to pick up a painting and told him that they'd always wanted a small painting of a particular bird. The instructor prepped the paper/inks and 5 minutes later had the painting done, and told the customer "that will be $300."

The response was "but it only took you 5 minutes to do it, that is too much money."

The reply was "yes, 5 minutes and 20 years of learning how to do it in 5 minutes."

My hat is off to those who dig in and manage to make a living doing their passion. But just because it is YOUR passion doesn't mean that someone else is going to value your work product as much as you do.

If you keep your expectations low you may be somewhat less inclined to be horribly disappointed. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" often ignores the flip side which is "nothing ventured, nothing lost."

I'm not unhappy that my glass is half full, I'm more surprised that I've got a glass at all.



Best of luck to those who try to achieve their dreams!
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  #16  
Old 05-21-2017, 11:15 PM
robtg robtg is offline
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"I'm not unhappy that my glass is half full, I'm more surprised that I've got a glass at all."


Michael, that was perfect.---R Grauer
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  #17  
Old 05-21-2017, 11:19 PM
Richard Lennard Richard Lennard is offline
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I bought my Sunbeam Tiger in 1976.
I decided to "Restore it" in 1978.
I was a long way off with the necessary skills.
I learnt some of the skills doing everyone elses jobs.
I then thought i could do this as a business, which I did for the next fifteen years, badly paid!
1979, sold the Tiger, in bits, couldnt face it, as they say here "Busmans holiday".
1994 or thereabouts had a career change after a divorce and a bad bike smash.
1997, bought my Tiger back, in even more bits.
In the meanwhile collected all the missing bits.
Today I am restoring my Tiger (desperately trying to do it right!) and I dont do anyone elses - and Im loving it.
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  #18  
Old 05-22-2017, 02:16 AM
dschumann dschumann is offline
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I see my communication skills are a bit off in this forum. The whole point to mentioning that I am on the cusp of retirement and mentioning my aforethought in accumulating capital to purchase tools, get training AND to finance living for a time is to demonstrate that I've thought through the "hobby or business" bit. By the time the money runs out and I take another job, I will know for certain which I will do.

My primary goal here is to create something from sheets of metal that at least myself, and hopefully someone else would find beautiful enough to reward with money. If not, meh. I'll be happy that I've experienced learning.

I mentioned in my first post that I had shifted my near term goals from "gathering tools" to "gathering knowledge." I got it. We could smash that cat flat some more, if you'd like....

Quote:
The best plan is probably to be independently wealthy and then do what you like to do. For the rest of the people the adage that "they call it work because you don't enjoy it" is probably pretty accurate.
This is why my wife and I have exercised financial discipline and have driven our cost of living down as low as we can. With a few exceptions, I've hated my job for 35 years. Now its time to at least try something I think I might enjoy.

Quote:
Something to consider Drew: Order you a small leather bag, a couple of the jeweler hammers and a good pair of snips, a couple of small dollies and some decent sized candles. You should be able to come up with plenty of Coke cans that you can use for practice. With aluminum that thin, it doesn't take much force to form and a candle should be enough to anneal when required. The whole batch of tools would fit in a small bag and only be a couple of pounds. It would be pretty easy to work on various forming processes and develop your skills while you are in the sandbox, and not have a big expense or lots to drag home when the time comes.
This is a great suggestion. I have been dinking around with scraps I've found lying about. Unfortunately, we have folks sleeping at all hours and anything that makes much noise is just not possible. But a soda can and a small hammer just may be possible. Thanks!
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  #19  
Old 05-22-2017, 04:35 AM
Gareth Davies Gareth Davies is offline
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Drew, whatever you decide to, it's all good advice coming out here. On a different note, I'm sorry to hear you've spent so long hating your job. I've pretty much enjoyed most of the last 35 years at work, especially the last 13 that I've been my own boss for

Onwards and upwards though, try and enjoy the next phase of your life. Good luck.
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  #20  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:58 AM
RockHillWill RockHillWill is offline
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As an additional side note, I not only agree with what has been posted about the earning money from your hobby, but I have also learned that building your own equipment is not all that it is cracked up to be either. I have some experience with machines and as a fabricator, but when I looked back at the time and expense involved in building two English wheels, a quick review of my records (don't keep them, LOL) it became clear, that it is more cost effective to buy one from a good supplier, rather than running around seeking material, traveling to pick it up, making jigs and fixtures to assemble and weld it, then searching for all those small details and parts that you did not think about initially.

Good luck with your new venture. Stay after it and persevere.
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