> Clean fuel gas - have you had lumpy rough welds? - Page 2 - All MetalShaping <
All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > Welding Sheet Metal
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-15-2017, 06:52 PM
duck duck is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Just north of Cincinnati
Posts: 28
Default Gases

Group, I just read the post on dirty gas. What is in the gas to make it dirty? Moisture or some other foreign substance? I may be using it but don't know it. What is it doing to the weld? Is this only true of welding aluminum? I don't seem to have a problem weld steel, or do I?

Learning a little at a time,

Duck
__________________
Gary Drake
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:11 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 & April '16
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 2,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hamilton View Post
Thanks Kent
That sounds like good value, for a clean gas.

Steve
Yes, the price is as low as we can sell them for.
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:16 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 & April '16
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 2,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by duck View Post
Group, I just read the post on dirty gas. What is in the gas to make it dirty? Moisture or some other foreign substance? I may be using it but don't know it. What is it doing to the weld? Is this only true of welding aluminum? I don't seem to have a problem weld steel, or do I?

Learning a little at a time,

Duck
Hi Duck,
We have not analyzed the dirt, just the problem. When you unscrew the regulator take a look at the exit hole on the bottle. Sometimes there is a wet gray ash-like crud built up on there.

It can affect steel welds but I only notice it on Chromoly tubing - and it could be mistaken for technique. The only problem is that technique alone will not fix the issue of having dirty gas.
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.

Last edited by crystallographic; 02-19-2017 at 09:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-16-2017, 05:55 PM
Rick Mullin Rick Mullin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Malvern,PA
Posts: 58
Default

I have never experienced dirty acetylene. I have experienced dirty argon several times and it was a disaster. Is your filter specifically for acetylene? Once a bottle is contaminated, there is very little to be done to clean it. This is compounded by the fact that they usually do not mark a dirty bottle or pull it from service when it is returned.

A few years back there was a shortage of acetylene. Apparently, there are a limited number of manufacturing plants in the country. One of the big ones had an explosion and it was some time before they got back on line. I was told by my supplier that during that period, there was a cleanliness problem.
__________________
Rick
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-17-2017, 12:18 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 & April '16
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 2,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Mullin View Post
I have never experienced dirty acetylene. I have experienced dirty argon several times and it was a disaster. Is your filter specifically for acetylene? Once a bottle is contaminated, there is very little to be done to clean it. This is compounded by the fact that they usually do not mark a dirty bottle or pull it from service when it is returned.

A few years back there was a shortage of acetylene. Apparently, there are a limited number of manufacturing plants in the country. One of the big ones had an explosion and it was some time before they got back on line. I was told by my supplier that during that period, there was a cleanliness problem.
Hi Rick,
I have known about the dirty Ar for many years, back to early '90's.
Our filter is .1 micron catchable, but don't know what type of contaminants are prevalent. I'd be happy to test a known bottle of bad Ar, to see. Or loan a filter out to test on a known bottle of bad Ar. ...

About the time our big supplier took their lousy acet generation off line to replace it the shortage came up. I remember when mag went up, first the major US stockpile burned for two weeks and then one of the largest mfrs went up. Price went triple in months.
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-17-2017, 07:24 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 946
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
Hi Rick,
I have known about the dirty Ar for many years, back to early '90's.
Our filter is .1 micron catchable, but don't know what type of contaminants are prevalent. I'd be happy to test a known bottle of bad Ar, to see. Or loan a filter out to test on a known bottle of bad Ar. ...

About the time our big supplier took their lousy acet generation off line to replace it the shortage came up. I remember when mag went up, first the major US stockpile burned for two weeks and then one of the largest mfrs went up. Price went triple in months.
Never knew why the price jumped, just know that it did. I had chalked it up as similar to comparable fast price jumps in copper/lead/scrap in general (especially resulting wholesale batteries and tire prices) about a decade ago.
__________________
AC Button II
http://CarolinaSculptureStudio.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-17-2017, 09:59 AM
tom walker tom walker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: st.louis,mo.
Posts: 39
Default

In 2005 there was a fire at Praxair in St. Louis, a propane, acetylene etc supplier. This generating plant was located right in the middle of a residential neighborhood, I remember watching the news report, there were bottles exploding, flying thru the air and the heat from the fire could be felt from a quarter mile away! That incident probably helped fuel the price increase. Be careful out there, fellows.
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-19-2017, 07:09 PM
Gando Gando is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Concord N.C.
Posts: 102
Default

Kent
Thank you for sharing this info! For folks like me who are still on the steep side of the learning curve it is great to be aware of these not so obvious problems so we can focus on improving the human element. Less grinding is always a good thing too!
Gandy
David Gandy
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-20-2017, 02:02 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October '14 & April '16
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Sierra Nevadas, Badger Hill, CA
Posts: 2,638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gando View Post
Kent
Thank you for sharing this info! For folks like me who are still on the steep side of the learning curve it is great to be aware of these not so obvious problems so we can focus on improving the human element. Less grinding is always a good thing too!
Gandy
David Gandy
You are very welcome, Gando.
I know how hard it is or how long it can take to get accurate info - or learn the right widget to make that one task happen correctly ..... I'm very glad to help out.
(there are welders and there are grinders, but best to be moving more towards the former, and away from the latter.)

This is an O/H weld on an early P51, probably done by a young lady during WW2 ..... nothing beats doing a task 8/40 for skill level ....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P51 wingroot fairing, copy.jpg (24.8 KB, 61 views)
__________________
Kent

http://www.tinmantech.com

"All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-21-2017, 09:20 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Posts: 946
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystallographic View Post
You are very welcome, Gando.
I know how hard it is or how long it can take to get accurate info - or learn the right widget to make that one task happen correctly ..... I'm very glad to help out.
(there are welders and there are grinders, but best to be moving more towards the former, and away from the latter.)

This is an O/H weld on an early P51, probably done by a young lady during WW2 ..... nothing beats doing a task 8/40 for skill level ....
Very well said and appreciated, Kent. I used to crash into a lot more things than I do now. Good info, good tools and people worthy of being considered worthy are more important than quick progress.

Gotta ask if you're working on a new underwater forming and welding video series while testing these filters underwater yet... Hope you and others here doing ok around all the wet weather out there.
__________________
AC Button II
http://CarolinaSculptureStudio.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifzjA6A Carolina Sculpture Studio Channel
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.