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  #21  
Old 12-22-2015, 01:16 AM
Phil Minton Phil Minton is offline
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Dave,

I've no great welding experience and made a real basic mistake with my TIG when I first got it - like forgetting to switch to the right AC or DC setting for the material which produced interesting results!.

By far the best improvement to the kit was buying some gas lenses which seem to give better coverage and less weld contamination.
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  #22  
Old 12-22-2015, 02:34 AM
qkiss qkiss is offline
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Contaminated Gas ???? ------ I run into bad Argon every now and then. The way it was explained to me is that from time to time the bottles need to be pressure tested. The process is performed using hot water as a hydraulic agent under a predetermined high pressure to verify bottle integrity. The water is then emptied out and the bottles are left to dry. The problem is that sometimes a little is water left behind creating contamination when refilled. It seems as though it happens more frequently this days than in years past. The only sure way I know to check for this is to substitute a known good bottle.

Another thing to check is make sure all the argon fittings are tight and there are no leaks where air can be sucked in and contaminate and don't forget the cup seal on the torch.

With equipment in good shape ---- proper filler rod ------ clean base metal I can not remember ever having problems. The thing about dirty base metal such as paint oil ect that is often over looked is as it is heated and burns --- the smoke is a gas and contaminates the argon gas shield.
One more thing that comes to mind about shielding gas type welding TIG or MIG is it does not tolerate wind or excess air movement such as fans in the shop. It blows the gas shield away from the weld puddle. Results are porosity. ------------ Just a few ideas that came to mind.
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  #23  
Old 12-22-2015, 05:26 AM
Dave Z. Dave Z. is offline
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Easy John...I was kinda joking about my embarrassment...I'm a machinist, auto body and painter, mechanic, and innovative thinker. I'm self taught in a lot of skills. My work ethic and skills and talents show thru on my job and with anything I build. The tig welding is a new challenge for me and at 55 years old I think my expectations of myself are quite high. Maybe when most everything I do mechanically goes easy for me I come down on myself when something frustrates me. If you would prefer not to give me advice that's fine. I appreciate any help anyone can give and I ALWAYS pass my knowledge on to younger guys I work with and anyone else interested. I tried to post pics some time ago but it wouldn't allow me to because they are to large. I'm not a computer savvy person so I don't know how to resize them to send. I also work 10 plus hour days so my time here is limited. I have no fear I will learn this type of welding. Thanks for all the help you guys give. Ill keep practicing till I hit it!
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  #24  
Old 12-22-2015, 10:49 AM
SoCalShaper SoCalShaper is offline
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Are you welding on AC or DC? My personal experience is silicon bronze works much better on AC, and you get the cleaning action from the AC which will help to get rid of contamination. And the MIG wire is a good idea, has more ingredients to reduce contamination. Most MIG wire is ER70S6, and don't quote me but I think standard TIG rod is ER70S2. Try running your welder on AC with the Silicon bronze it will work much better.

Kyle
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  #25  
Old 12-22-2015, 08:03 PM
Dave Z. Dave Z. is offline
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I tried everything. AC, DC, more gas less gas, high amps less amps, 1/16 3/32 tungsten, make sure no drafts, clean metal ( I think), and basically everything you guys suggested. I cant be sure I don't have bad gas BUT I'm willing to bet its more my lack of tig welding skills than anything else. I should just practice more on something "non critical". LOL. As far as the welds looks...it looks as it should. No gaps, no burn thru, maybe to much heat tho. The sheet metal did soak up a lot of heat as I tried to puddle a wide weld od SiB over my steel weld. If I cant get an air tight weld and get tired of trying I may resort to the 290 Loctite and the tank sealant. Granted...Ill still practice to achieve leak proof welds in the future. I dreamed up a practice "tank" that I can weld on and test and cut apart and experiment with. Back to my flawed weld...it seems to leak at two spots no matter what I do...I'm thinking one last try but this time Ill grind out the steel also. It has to be where I got dirt in the weld or a spot I stopped and didn't hold the gas over it till it cooled. I'm a stick welder so I don't remember to stay put once the spark goes off! Worst that can happen is Ill cut the "embarrassing" weld out and make a patch to replace it and start all over.
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  #26  
Old 12-23-2015, 01:27 AM
SoCalShaper SoCalShaper is offline
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Just curious is the tank completely welded with no openings? If so the air expanding can push through the puddle leaving a hole. I don't know what options your tig has but if you can adjust your AC balance for more cleaning and hang around at low amps before putting any bronze down. You'll see the AC cleaning the material and when it's ready for more heat and rod. Other than that I don't know what else to tell you, I've always liked silicon bronze because it flows so well.

Kyle
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  #27  
Old 12-23-2015, 08:31 PM
Dave Z. Dave Z. is offline
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Thanks Kyle...actually its all open now. I was trying to relocate the filler hole by using a patch to close the original location. I'm doing this while the tank is split open. What I have is a pair of Harley tanks...the older bikes had left and right side tanks. I cut out the "flat side" that goes toward the backbone of the frame and took out a narrowed wedge to narrow and taper them in. While the shell part is open I figured on doing the relocation. Well that's where I'm having trouble. And yes...the silicon bronze did flow out nicely and "looks" good. Its just pin holes and leaks what seems to be under the weld. Some guys say I'm getting troubles from it being open and pulling air under the weld. But...at this point I have so much grinding and rewilding done to both sides it cant pull air. I did try AC but ran it over the existing porous weld. It didn't help. It made it look nicer tho. Hopefully after Christmas Day I can sit down and take another whack at it. I'm just betting its my lack of skills. What bugs me is the SiB didn't fix the leaks in the steel weld...it soaked thru to the other side but still had leaks in various places. Some on here wanted pictures but in all honesty you wont see much. Just looks like an over heated warped mess at this point. Its not really resembling the original weld joint that maybe someone could analyze. Thanks for the help...and if I do figure it out I sure will post it here!
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  #28  
Old 12-24-2015, 02:05 AM
SoCalShaper SoCalShaper is offline
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If you soaked the bronze through. That's your problem. Silicon bronze is used for tig brazing which just like brazing with a torch is not welding. You should only heat the base metal enough for the bronze to bond to it, not melt together. When you first welded it pin holes or not it's joined, the bronze should have been only to cover it. You shouldn't melt the base metal and bronze together. And my two cents if I were you I would practice till I could get a leak proof weld, and forget the Silicon bronze altogether. Brazing has its place in welding but I wouldn't want to use it to fill holes on my gas tank. Good luck and don't give up, you'll figure it out eventually.

Kyle
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  #29  
Old 12-24-2015, 06:11 AM
Dave Z. Dave Z. is offline
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Thanks Kyle...I agree with you. Looking at it its obvious its to hot. I do have a practice piece I made up to weld with steel filler and be able to pressure test it. I guess I'm a bit Impatient and want to see progress on my tanks. Now I guess the solution is to cut out that area and make a new patch. AFTER I practice...LOL
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  #30  
Old 12-24-2015, 07:24 AM
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Marty Comstock Marty Comstock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalShaper View Post
If you soaked the bronze through. That's your problem. Silicon bronze is used for tig brazing which just like brazing with a torch is not welding. You should only heat the base metal enough for the bronze to bond to it, not melt together. When you first welded it pin holes or not it's joined, the bronze should have been only to cover it. You shouldn't melt the base metal and bronze together. And my two cents if I were you I would practice till I could get a leak proof weld, and forget the Silicon bronze altogether. Brazing has its place in welding but I wouldn't want to use it to fill holes on my gas tank. Good luck and don't give up, you'll figure it out eventually.

Kyle
I melt base material all the time with no issues, like I mentioned before. I use it a lot when I need to clean up a contaminated weld that isn't structurally important, and would definitely use it on tanks as mentioned.

Perhaps our experiences are different.

Marty
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