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  #11  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:51 AM
Steve Dussemberg Steve Dussemberg is offline
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If you don’t mind the tool holder being longer a readily available 5c square collet could be an option. It has a keyway for indexing and will also keep you open for standard pullmax tooling. You can use a nut to push the collet in to the spindle instead of drawing the collet in, so you could shorten the collet and simplify the spindle as well.

I’ve attached some dimensioned drawings I found on the web to save you the time for searching.

I am at the same point as you and have decided to go with original P21 nuts and collets because I want the extra clearance from a short collet/collet nut on the top tool holder as well. You may want to keep that in mind because clearance is small on a P21 when using naida style tool holders or e.g. eckold tooling.

In your drawings you have already knocked down the shoulder on the bottom tool holder giving you probably an extra 20mm clearance. You could probably even knock it down another 8-10mm. Using short collets on top and bottom will give you approximately another inch on the top and on the bottom. That's quite a win and you stay flexible by mixing long and short collet/collet nuts.
I love your idea and I think is much better than mine and you're way ahead of the game at this point than I am. I will definitely consider re-design my holder and use some of your inputs. Thank you very much for the valuable information.
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Last edited by Steve Dussemberg; 05-21-2018 at 10:55 AM.
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2018, 11:55 AM
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sky sky is offline
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I love your idea and I think is much better than mine and you're way ahead of the game at this point than I am. I will definitely consider re-design my holder and use some of your inputs. Thank you very much for the valuable information.
Glad if I could give you a tad of valuable input (that’s what this forum and those special interest fb groups are all about: brainpooling!) I appreciate your kind feedback. Thanks.
I sent you a pm this morning on fb. Don’t hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.
Cheers
Sky
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2018, 12:22 PM
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Joe Hartson Joe Hartson is offline
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I would recommend the 5C collet over the ER series collets because of the different sizes and shapes, round, square, and hex collets. You will need to make a nut to close the collet from the top, easy to do. The first picture shows a setup that I made using a spin index that is set up for 5C collets. You can use the spindle alone and put it in some body to fit whatever you are trying to do. The spindle is made of a very good material probably 4140 of something like that. It will harden easily if a cutter, saw blade just rubs on it and doesn't cut. Don't ask how I know that!



The following link is for page 4 of one of my albums with more pictures of the collets I made and use.

http://allmetalshaping.com/album.php?albumid=160&page=4

This is what Nibbler tooling looks like. Shows round shank and indexing cut on the end of the shank.

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  #14  
Old 05-21-2018, 01:03 PM
toreadorxlt toreadorxlt is offline
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I would recommend the 5C collet over the ER series collets because of the different sizes and shapes, round, square, and hex collets. You will need to make a nut to close the collet from the top, easy to do.

Putting a nut to close a 5C collet will hold a shank, but I made this setup and it works terribly to lower tools. The collet never breaks the taper lock, and the shaft doesn't slip down. Very Unusable without coming up with a creative way to invert the collet.
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  #15  
Old 05-21-2018, 01:43 PM
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I have never experienced what you are saying. When the nut is loosen that tightened the collet it releases the tooling. The collets have internal threads that you can make a piece for a stop or make and adjuster to raise of lower the tooling. Very flexible usage.

The lower adjuster will break the taper loose and allow the tooling in the collet to float freely in the collet. I have a 10 degree taper inside the nut where it pushes on the top of the collet to close it. That may make a difference.
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Last edited by Joe Hartson; 05-21-2018 at 01:58 PM. Reason: Add information
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  #16  
Old 05-21-2018, 02:36 PM
toreadorxlt toreadorxlt is offline
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I have never experienced what you are saying. When the nut is loosen that tightened the collet it releases the tooling. The collets have internal threads that you can make a piece for a stop or make and adjuster to raise of lower the tooling. Very flexible usage.

The lower adjuster will break the taper loose and allow the tooling in the collet to float freely in the collet. I have a 10 degree taper inside the nut where it pushes on the top of the collet to close it. That may make a difference.

Have you ever loosened the draw bar on a bridgeport and had the Collet and end mill stick in the quill? How many times do you need to use a brass hammer to tap the draw bar? Happens all the time.

This is what I was having in my 5C Collet setup I posted before. I'd have to manually wiggle the tooling to break its taper lock, and even 3/4" cold roll stock wouldn't slide nice down the collet body. If I had ground my stem stock I might have had better luck, but I gave up because the rod doc style holder works great.
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  #17  
Old 05-21-2018, 02:52 PM
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Every time I loosen the draw bar on the Bridgeport I hit it with a brass hammer to break the taper. The tapper is R8 and not 5C, the tappers are different. You should be able to break the tapper on the lower 5C collet with the lower adjuster if you are having that problem.

The Nibbler, Pullmax style machine, doesn't have an inverted lower collet like the Pullmax and I don't have any problems with the lower collet not loosening when the nut is loosened. It uses round shanks on the tooling.
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  #18  
Old 05-21-2018, 03:16 PM
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Steve, check your PMs
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  #19  
Old 05-21-2018, 03:28 PM
Steve Dussemberg Steve Dussemberg is offline
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Steve, check your PMs
I checked but there is nothing there. Can you please resend the message.

Thank you.
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  #20  
Old 05-21-2018, 03:43 PM
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Steve Dussemberg message sent.
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