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  #21  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:47 AM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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Drew, I also have reached the age of retirement and am financially stable. And I love the metalshaping . So to me your planning to make a paying hobby by working with metal sounds great to me.

I would however broaden the scope to include fabrication, welding and even art!

Congratulations on your impending retirement and good luck !
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:27 AM
longyard longyard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHillWill View Post
... I have also learned that building your own equipment is not all that it is cracked up to be either. I have some experience with machines and as a fabricator, but when I looked back at the time and expense involved ... it became clear, that it is more cost effective to buy one from a good supplier...
Ain't that the TRUTH!
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  #23  
Old 05-22-2017, 03:14 PM
Michael Moore Michael Moore is offline
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A friend likes to point out you are often better off buying what you can buy and making what you can't buy. If you want to make something for the fun of making it, that's different from "I need this tool, I could have it by the weekend and put it to work or I could make a really cool one just the way I want it and use it at some indeterminate time in the future if I ever get it built."

I'm a lot better at starting grandiose projects than I am at finishing them. But I'm also picky and my budget (not a bad one at that) often won't stretch to what I'd really like to have so I have to decide which is more important -- doing the project or someday having the tool of my dreams.

It is like Myford lathe syndrome: where the model maker buys a Myford and then spends the next 20 years building every possible cool attachment/accessory for it instead of making model engines as was originally planned.
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  #24  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:39 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dschumann View Post

After studying metalshaping more extensively, I am more interested in how I build skill so that I can produce things of value.

Right now my goal is to be able to fabricate car panels, make customized wall art and signs and make toys.

If you had a year's worth of living expenses saved up, combined with about $10k to buy tools and get training, what would you do?
I'd get some practice on shop skills.
Layout and patterns. Symmetry and balance. Transferring paper dolls to flat sheet. Cutting accurately. Deburring. Getting the cutout blanks accurate. Forming the blanks. Shaping the blanks. Shaping left and right halves to match. Annealing. Torch work. Soldering. Brazing. Welding. Tee joints. Lap joints. Butt joints.

Pick a name for your shop - "Drawn Metal" for instance. Make a set of 8inch hollow block letters 1 inch thick, with soldered edges, using 22 or 24 ga galv. Or copper. Add in the capitals. Mount it up. Illuminate it.

Repeat the arduous tasks until your results look nice. Do things 6x each.
Apprenticeships involve small things done repeatedly to accuracy. Then on to larger more complex things. And so on.
3 hours per day to start. 6 hours a day to maintain excellence.
Fall asleep at night with the process going in your mind.
Read.
Practice.
Immerse and Challenge yourself.
P1020778.jpg
P1020784.jpg
Be creative.
P1020822.jpg
P1020875.jpg
Be wildly creative.
Then blow the doors off your box.
P1030767.jpg
P1030768.jpg

The difference shows in a classroom situation, when you get to it. When you go to class well-prepared you will draw more out of it.


... okay, I'm getting down off my soapbox now ...
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  #25  
Old 05-22-2017, 10:38 PM
dschumann dschumann is offline
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I posted a well thought out reply last night which didn't actually post.

So, in sum, great suggestions.

Kent, your points are EXACTLY what I know I suck at, and why I haven't gone further in my metalshaping.

I need to practice those things as a daily Kata. Great things come from small things.

The sign idea is extremely good.

I've been playing around with pop cans for the last day or so, and have the start of a bowl, just using finger tucks and a piece of 2x4 to planish.
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  #26  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:25 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dschumann View Post

Kent, your points are EXACTLY what I know I suck at, and why I haven't gone further in my metalshaping.

I need to practice those things as a daily Kata. Great things come from small things.
Good Kata always includes the basics.
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  #27  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:59 PM
KAD KAD is offline
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In all the replies lies what you need to accomplish all your goals.....

My advise.....and worth what you paid for it.

Do more with less always.

Focus on the basics of hand work.

Focus on it being a business "after" you find out if your going to be good at it.
There are those that can learn enough in 3-4 years....you may not be one of them.

Buy really good tools.......if your an expert you could make anything with almost nothing for tools.....your not an expert and bad tools can easily cripple your efforts to learn. (like a crappy English Wheel for starters)

At some point you will have invested a huge amount of time and money into your effort, try and decide as quickly as possible if the view was worth the climb.
If you don't think it was be honest with yourself and move on to other things...this isn't for everyone.

Statistically speaking most people that try and learn this never figure it out or get any good at it.
If at first you don't succeed try try again....then quit there's no use being a fool about it.

In the end if you succeed and accomplish your goals it will have been a way different journey than you initially might have thought.

Expect it to be hard and dirty work with none of the glamour and glitz of a TV show about it.

Do whatever you can throughout your journey to save your body from the punishment that could easily cripple you later in life...you will be grateful.

Don't always listen to the "Expert"...there's no judging group that bestows the title to anyone.

Think before you "Do"
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Last edited by KAD; 05-23-2017 at 06:22 AM.
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  #28  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:01 AM
Rex_A_Lott Rex_A_Lott is offline
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I don’t have the skills of the people here, but I am like you, in that I am in my 50’s and trying to learn some new skills. So my advice is also worth what you paid for it…
Get some videos and watch them in your spare time, before you ever take a class. David Gardiner and Peter Tomassini have some excellent ones. I’m sure there are others out there, but I don’t own them and cant say from first hand experience. Both of them concentrate on showing what can be done with simple tools.
One of the first thing I realized after the first day of watching Peter shape metal, was that I will never live long enough to be as good as he is…he’s been at this for 40 years, but I do hope to be able to live long enough to get a lot better than I am now. Take his class if you ever get the chance, he shows you a lot in a few days that it would take you a long time to figure out on your own.
Good Luck to you!
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  #29  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:52 AM
dschumann dschumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAD View Post
In all the replies lies what you need to accomplish all your goals.....

My advise.....and worth what you paid for it.

Do more with less always.

Focus on the basics of hand work.

Focus on it being a business "after" you find out if your going to be good at it.
There are those that can learn enough in 3-4 years....you may not be one of them.

Buy really good tools.......if your an expert you could make anything with almost nothing for tools.....your not an expert and bad tools can easily cripple your efforts to learn. (like a crappy English Wheel for starters)

At some point you will have invested a huge amount of time and money into your effort, try and decide as quickly as possible if the view was worth the climb.
If you don't think it was be honest with yourself and move on to other things...this isn't for everyone.

Statistically speaking most people that try and learn this never figure it out or get any good at it.
If at first you don't succeed try try again....then quit there's no use being a fool about it.

In the end if you succeed and accomplish your goals it will have been a way different journey than you initially might have thought.

Expect it to be hard and dirty work with none of the glamour and glitz of a TV show about it.

Do whatever you can throughout your journey to save your body from the punishment that could easily cripple you later in life...you will be grateful.

Don't always listen to the "Expert"...there's no judging group that bestows the title to anyone.

Think before you "Do"
Great post. Thank you for such succinct, elegant, well-considered thoughts.

I'm going to go forward with this without fear of failure and just be happy with what will come.

Que sera, sera.
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  #30  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:54 AM
dschumann dschumann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott View Post
I don’t have the skills of the people here, but I am like you, in that I am in my 50’s and trying to learn some new skills. So my advice is also worth what you paid for it…
Get some videos and watch them in your spare time, before you ever take a class. David Gardiner and Peter Tomassini have some excellent ones. I’m sure there are others out there, but I don’t own them and cant say from first hand experience. Both of them concentrate on showing what can be done with simple tools.
One of the first thing I realized after the first day of watching Peter shape metal, was that I will never live long enough to be as good as he is…he’s been at this for 40 years, but I do hope to be able to live long enough to get a lot better than I am now. Take his class if you ever get the chance, he shows you a lot in a few days that it would take you a long time to figure out on your own.
Good Luck to you!
Cool! I hadn't even considered Tomassini until just recently. You aren't the only one suggesting this, btw.
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