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  #1081  
Old 01-10-2019, 08:42 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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Norman, Thanks for the kind words. I do what I can with what I've got. I'll get into that with my next post. I have been welding the stainless with my MIG. I have a spool of 306 or 308 wire. I did take some aluminum control arms to a freind to weld. That might be what you're thinking of. I bought my shrinker years ago and I think it had a tag on it that said National Machinery or something like that. It is not modified but I did make the stand and converted it to foot operation. It does flex but it's managable. It's not bad considering I work mostly with 18ga and 20ga steel.
No mods on the English Wheel. I did bevel the smallest radius anvil for side clearance and added a PU wheel but the wheel itself hasn't been modified.
If you want to see how to upgrade this wheel, check out what Marcus (GoJeep)
did with his. He has the same wheel. His mods are included in his Grand Willys thread. I have only ever had low level Ewheels. You adapt. I wouldn't know how to act with a rigid, top quality wheel.
As for the upholstery, when I make the roof I'll sub that out to someone that has the skills but some of the smaller stuff on the interior I might tackle myself.
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Last edited by Jack 1957; 01-10-2019 at 08:45 PM.
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  #1082  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:34 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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I'll call this post "Anger, Frustration, Humiliation and what to do about it"
I had a tough time getting the headlights and buckets mounted in the fenders, mostly because of tight clearance and poor visibilty. Neither of which I could do anything about other than fire the idiot that designed them (Me!).
Eventually I got them in and adjusted so I moved on to the headlight trim rings. Fairly simple considering what's already been done, right?
I pre-polished the brushed stainless sheet because it would be easier than trying to do it after they were finished. I cut a strip to the right length and width. I wanted a slight roll on the leading edge and a taper going aft toward the headlight. It dawned on me after I cut the first strip that there would be no way to put that taper in. I could not use the E wheel prior to bending it into a circle because it would kink or not even bend into a circle at all because the contour would fight against me. Rather than just scrap the piece I used it to experiment with the other operations that I would need to do. Weld, smooth, bead roll the leading edge etc.. Sooo, I'm going to spend half of a day making something that I already know is heading for the dumpster. I rolled a ring by hand and welded the ends together. As suspected, I now have a cylinder, not a cone. I was able to do a substandard job on the leading edge, using the bead roller, that I probably wouldn't even consider for a part that would never be seen again, but this is a high profile, high visibility part. Not even close to usable. AAAAARRRGGHH!!! Scrap #1.
This time I anchored a piece of string to the floor and pulled a 10 foot legth to form a radius and marked the sheet metal with two arcs 1 1/2" apart. When this strip is cut out and the ends are rolled together, it will form a cone. With a little manipulation, the piece formed as expected. It laid flat on the bench so I set up the welder and BLEW a HOLE IN IT THE SIZE OF NEW JERSEY!!! DOOOOOH!!!
I had a couple small spots on the ends I could tack together so I could use it to test methods for rolling the leading edge. By this time I was not in a very good frame of mind and I still needed to come up with a good way to roll the edge. I used a flat lower wheel and a raiused upper. I was running close to the edge and the fence wouldn't help me stay steady because I'm working a round piece and tilting it upward while I'm rolling. The edge formed properly but it wasn't straight enough and in one spot, the piece had slipped out of the roller due to the upward pressure I was putting on it. OK, I already knew I was working on scrap but I STILL haven't figured out how to roll that edge.
I think this was day 3 messing with these things and I was really getting frustrated by this point. I just kept thinking "You just stuffed a whole CTS into a 49 Cadillac and can't figure out how to make a novice level trim ring???"
Generally, I'm a pretty calm person. Especially when I'm working, but once I'm triggered it is futile. I lose focus and just get worse and worse. I know when it's time to shut it down, cool off and think. I decided I'd check around for some trim rings online(accept defeat?). I found some but they were chromed. Meaning that I won't be able to work with them if they don't fit. Whatever. I ordered a set. The picture below are the ones I ordered. Total GARBAGE! The three spots circled are divots from spot welding tabs on the back side. The chrome looks hazy because the metal wasn't polished before it was plated, and about 1/4" too large. I couldn't trim the edges without blasting the plating off. Unbelievable, but by this time I had cooled off and figured out a way to help roll the leading edge.

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What I thought might help me was to leave about an inch of extra material along the leading edge that would reach the fence. I couldn't use the fence as a guide but it would help as a visual guide. I would be able to see clearly if I was starting to wobble or go off course. Afterward I can trim it off.
By now I had used up all the sheet that I had polished and wasn't about to spend another half day polishing potential scrap so I cut a piece with the brushed finish still in tact and started another part. It worked. but ended up a little too large on the O.D.. No problem, I'll reduce it by about 1/8" on the disc sander. Eventually I got it. WoooHoooo! Now, can I make two???
Yes! the second one took less than an hour. I still have to polish them but I don't care. They are smooth, clean, and fit right.
I think the reason I wanted to post this is to let the newer guys know that it doesn't always go right the first time. (Nor second or third time). Think about why you're not getting what you're after. Don't think it's only you, and everyone else seems to get it right. That's not true. I also mentioned my lack of patience under certain circumstances for a reason: Know yourself. Learn how much failure you can tolerate and still remain focused and thinking clearly. This type of creative work should just flow freely from you. Your mission should always be to make the best part you can, no matter how long it takes. NOT to make this part in one hour, one day, etc.
From start to finish, including days of cooling off and thinking, I have about 10 or 12 days in these two "entry level" parts. It doesn't matter. I'm satisfied with the results and I now know how to quickly make a tapered cone with a rolled edge.
Learning the hard way is still learning!

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Set a Goal So Big That You Can't Achieve It Until You Grow Into The Person That Can.

Last edited by Jack 1957; 01-11-2019 at 01:19 AM.
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  #1083  
Old 01-11-2019, 04:06 AM
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123pugsy 123pugsy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack 1957 View Post
I'll call this post "Anger, Frustration, Humiliation and what to do about it"
I had a tough time getting the headlights and buckets mounted in the fenders, mostly because of tight clearance and poor visibilty. Neither of which I could do anything about other than fire the idiot that designed them (Me!).
Eventually I got them in and adjusted so I moved on to the headlight trim rings. Fairly simple considering what's already been done, right?
I pre-polished the brushed stainless sheet because it would be easier than trying to do it after they were finished. I cut a strip to the right length and width. I wanted a slight roll on the leading edge and a taper going aft toward the headlight. It dawned on me after I cut the first strip that there would be no way to put that taper in. I could not use the E wheel prior to bending it into a circle because it would kink or not even bend into a circle at all because the contour would fight against me. Rather than just scrap the piece I used it to experiment with the other operations that I would need to do. Weld, smooth, bead roll the leading edge etc.. Sooo, I'm going to spend half of a day making something that I already know is heading for the dumpster. I rolled a ring by hand and welded the ends together. As suspected, I now have a cylinder, not a cone. I was able to do a substandard job on the leading edge, using the bead roller, that I probably wouldn't even consider for a part that would never be seen again, but this is a high profile, high visibility part. Not even close to usable. AAAAARRRGGHH!!! Scrap #1.
This time I anchored a piece of string to the floor and pulled a 10 foot legth to form a radius and marked the sheet metal with two arcs 1 1/2" apart. When this strip is cut out and the ends are rolled together, it will form a cone. With a little manipulation, the piece formed as expected. It laid flat on the bench so I set up the welder and BLEW a HOLE IN IT THE SIZE OF NEW JERSEY!!! DOOOOOH!!!
I had a couple small spots on the ends I could tack together so I could use it to test methods for rolling the leading edge. By this time I was not in a very good frame of mind and I still needed to come up with a good way to roll the edge. I used a flat lower wheel and a raiused upper. I was running close to the edge and the fence wouldn't help me stay steady because I'm working a round piece and tilting it upward while I'm rolling. The edge formed properly but it wasn't straight enough and in one spot, the piece had slipped out of the roller due to the upward pressure I was putting on it. OK, I already knew I was working on scrap but I STILL haven't figured out how to roll that edge.
I think this was day 3 messing with these things and I was really getting frustrated by this point. I just kept thinking "You just stuffed a whole CTS into a 49 Cadillac and can't figure out how to make a novice level trim ring???"
Generally, I'm a pretty calm person. Especially when I'm working, but once I'm triggered it is futile. I lose focus and just get worse and worse. I know when it's time to shut it down, cool off and think. I decided I'd check around for some trim rings online(accept defeat?). I found some but they were chromed. Meaning that I won't be able to work with them if they don't fit. Whatever. I ordered a set. The picture below are the ones I ordered. Total GARBAGE! The three spots circled are divots from spot welding tabs on the back side. The chrome looks hazy because the metal wasn't polished before it was plated, and about 1/4" too large. I couldn't trim the edges without blasting the plating off. Unbelievable, but by this time I had cooled off and figured out a way to help roll the leading edge.

Attachment 50955

What I thought might help me was to leave about an inch of extra material along the leading edge that would reach the fence. I couldn't use the fence as a guide but it would help as a visual guide. I would be able to see clearly if I was starting to wobble or go off course. Afterward I can trim it off.
By now I had used up all the sheet that I had polished and wasn't about to spend another half day polishing potential scrap so I cut a piece with the brushed finish still in tact and started another part. It worked. but ended up a little too large on the O.D.. No problem, I'll reduce it by about 1/8" on the disc sander. Eventually I got it. WoooHoooo! Now, can I make two???
Yes! the second one took less than an hour. I still have to polish them but I don't care. They are smooth, clean, and fit right.
I think the reason I wanted to post this is to let the newer guys know that it doesn't always go right the first time. (Nor second or third time). Think about why you're not getting what you're after. Don't think it's only you, and everyone else seems to get it right. That's not true. I also mentioned my lack of patience under certain circumstances for a reason: Know yourself. Learn how much failure you can tolerate and still remain focused and thinking clearly. This type of creative work should just flow freely from you. Your mission should always be to make the best part you can, no matter how long it takes. NOT to make this part in one hour, one day, etc.
From start to finish, including days of cooling off and thinking, I have about 10 or 12 days in these two "entry level" parts. It doesn't matter. I'm satisfied with the results and I now know how to quickly make a tapered cone with a rolled edge.
Learning the hard way is still learning!

Attachment 50956


Attachment 50957

They came out nice.



Great post. I have some frustrating pieces to make in the future. Just need to remember this.
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  #1084  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:43 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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Great post, Jack. Those look good.
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  #1085  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:47 AM
Jon Thompson Jon Thompson is offline
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Default Nice!

Anyone with an ounce of honesty/humility can identify with you. Been there! Felt that! Nice outcome possibly with the added cost of a few gray hairs. Jon T
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  #1086  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:14 AM
blue62 blue62 is offline
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Jack love your work and how you work out problems.
I agree with what you say about sticking with it when you working on or learning to do something.
I (a newbie) have been working on trying to make a rear fender for an Austin Healey for close to a year. Some of the parts I have done 8-9 times.
I don't have a fender yet but I am close.
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  #1087  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:27 PM
Sprint Relic Sprint Relic is offline
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I needed to fabricate door window moulding for my Father in Law's car. Fast forward 14 mos.worth of weekends, 12 false starts, & 1 beadroller build that I thought was absolutely necessary for success (it wasn't), I had the required window mouldings. The upholstery guy came to the shop to size up his work and was amazed at the mouldings. He asked how I was able to make them, I tried to explain but after many blank stares, I reached over and picked up a spare blank and within 5 minutes I had another window moulding. It was my turn for blank stares as I realized I had just studied for 14 mos to be able to produce a part in 5 minutes.
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Last edited by Sprint Relic; 01-11-2019 at 01:32 PM.
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  #1088  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:59 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue62 View Post
....I (a newbie) have been working on trying to make a rear fender for an Austin Healey for close to a year. Some of the parts I have done 8-9 times.
I don't have a fender yet but I am close.
I've been watching the thread. With Wray's video and Peter's guidance, you'll get there.
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  #1089  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:11 PM
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Jack 1957 Jack 1957 is offline
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I went ahead and polished these trim rings just to satisfy myself. I needed to put these behind me and move on. They are finally finished and look good.

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  #1090  
Old 01-12-2019, 02:21 AM
Gojeep Gojeep is offline
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Very nice result.
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