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  #11  
Old 02-22-2015, 02:12 AM
oztinbasher oztinbasher is offline
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Nice buck, great to use technology to build a accurate buck which should make a accurate part. I always end up with a better result with a buck. I have to do it with paper patterns and template though.
Cheers Steve.
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  #12  
Old 02-22-2015, 06:10 PM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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That is a very nice buck and obviously very accurate! It will help you immensely. There are going to be compromises with any buck. Some people have difficulty dealing with inconvenience. Be proud of your work and what you are trying build. Keep us up to date with your project.
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2015, 01:36 AM
Jeffer Jeffer is offline
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Really looking forward to the cnced result neil.
Cheers!
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2015, 09:37 PM
sblack sblack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilb View Post
hi scott, its not being negative you just found something else that worked better for you! i have no idea how easy or hard this buck will be to use as its the first one but I'm sure i'll find out how easy it is for me lol
If you go to metalmeet to the general discussion you can see my thread called aeronca nose bowl buck and see the discussion that took place. I look forward to seeing your progress. Please keep posting.
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2015, 01:01 AM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
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People that build blind backside bucks get mad at me for saying this but I agree 100% with Scott in post #9. Station ribs shouldn’t be any deeper than 3” to 5” and should have enough spacing between them that the shaper can immediately see the relationship between the outer edge of the buck and the panel by just moving your head from side to side. When you’re a beginner at shaping a panel to fit a buck you will end up checking fit-up many many times and being able to quickly tell the relationship of your panel to all buck stations will be nothing but a big time saver particularly on panels that have a lot of shape or “flow changes” for lack of a better term.<O></O>
<O> </O>
When I shape to a buck I lay my partially shaped panels on my work bench and then lay the buck on top (which is no problem because it’s light) and can immediately tell what my direction is, where to shrink or stretch more. Then before removing the buck I will roll the buck into each of the corners and may find one fits pretty good and another just needs a bit more shrinking to fit nicely or another just needs to be formed up a little tighter so I quickly remove my buck and try that. Then after I’m convinced I’ve formed up my partially shaped panel as close as possible I scribble on some Sharpie pen marks (while the buck is still laying on the panel) and use those marks to further shape the panel. For me it’s pretty much that way till the end but the closer I get to finish the more I run my hand over the outside of the panel to check for the flow of the panel. Back in the day I sanded my fair share of auto body plastic so I’ve got a reasonably good feel for body flow which also helps me.<O></O>
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IMO some people have the idea that a lot of stations means higher accuracy. IMO fewer and less deep stations where you can quickly see the buck edges and their relationship to the panel from behind is the quicker and also easier road to accuracy.<O></O>
<O> </O>
Another point rarely covered but still very true is unless you’ve got that rare customer with very deep pockets it’s hard to get paid a decent rate to build bucks. So a person may spend all that extra time to build himself what he feels is the highest quality buck that looks like it was built by a cabinet maker and find himself coming up short on rent $$$ for those months. When I build my bucks I screw them together with hex head sheet metal screws, a reversible drill with a magnetic tip to hold the hex screws and sheet metal angles with pre-punched holes. Another bonus is you can outline & number the angles with a Sharpie pen and disassemble the bucks for storage in a very small area. I also cut my interlocking slots maybe a ½” oversize, it allows me to tip the station to square them with the panel and also speeds assembly. My bucks aren’t art work and are a country mile from cabinet maker quality but they work better for me than any buck with a blind backside…… which to me is the whole point of the buck. <O></O>
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The first 2 photos are bucks I made to make rock guards for the fenders on a very wide body Cobra. In the 3<SUP>rd</SUP> photo you can see that wide body Cobra and a 300 SL Mercedes I made the tail panel for. The buck for the Mercedes had only 4 stations, 1 horizontal in the middle of the panel and 3 verticals (middle & both ends) but unfortunately I have no photo of that buck. Forth & fifth photos are a 34 Ford Vicky I made a chrome cover for the lower large body beading. I covered the ends of the beading with wax, then plaster of Paris and then used the plaster to make bucks out of fiberglass sealing rope from McMaster-Carr. It’s probably how I should have made the Cobra rock guard bucks…… much faster. The final photo is California Metal Shaping making the 1<SUP>st</SUP> Cobra coupe, you can see there’s no elaborate buck being used but they weren’t trying to make a perfect duplicate of an existing car so in reality they didn’t need to be all that accurate. I’m not an expert metal shaper so I need as much information as I can possibly get so a blind or limited backside vision buck just isn’t going to do that for me. Having said that and in all fairness on this subject any buck is better than no buck at all and accurate bucks take a lot of time to make so if a customer brought me a buck he built I’d somehow use it or modify it to work for me. ~ John Buchtenkirch

!!!!!ATRUCK (4).jpg

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A res#2.jpg

!!!!a34v.jpg

!!!!a34v - Copy.jpg

cal2 - Copy.jpg<O></O>
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Last edited by John Buchtenkirch; 02-25-2015 at 01:11 AM.
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  #16  
Old 02-27-2015, 08:42 AM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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Default Large and full body bucks

John, I fully understand, that your customers and will try squeeze ever bit of efficiency out on job. Makes perfect sense. The question that I am posing is these large bucks are a different animal. Small bucks are easier to flip around. But because of their size the large bucks will have a tendency to be heavy and flexible. Full body bucks must be rigid. If you have 1/8" twist at 2ft gets big at 16ft .So in order to have only 3"-5" of rib depth and open in the center, the internal structure would become complex in shape and structural design. So extra time must be spent up front designing and building this viewer friendly,accurate and rigid buck. That is still time $$.

I welcome any thoughts you have on this internal structure, because there just isn't a lot of readily available info on buck building. There are many examples of old style eggcrate buck that have been used successfully and are fairly simple to construct, so that probably why so many are new one are built that way. That doesn't mean there is not a better way. Your thoughts are great but, I am not understanding how to carry them out on a pontoon fender or the corners of a full buck.
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Last edited by Mike Motage; 02-27-2015 at 09:55 AM.
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2015, 10:51 PM
Barry Barry is offline
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How about using John's idea - I too favour placing the buck inside the part, rather than the part over the buck - by making the shallow station buck detachable from a main frame. An entire car could be done with the sections split up where you would be placing your welds
You could then work this way to get the shape perfect, and then deal with any final arrangement/twist issues before welding the separate parts together
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