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  #11  
Old 09-22-2018, 01:19 PM
dwmh dwmh is offline
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Yes please let us know how you get on. I don't think it is readily available in the UK for us small time users, but I would like to know if it is worth hunting down.
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  #12  
Old 09-23-2018, 01:45 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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I am using ČSN 11321.21. (.21 = heat treatment - standardization annealing.)
For threshing into sheet metal good. I do not have a problem yet. Yet some colleagues talk about a problem in sheet metal.
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  #13  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:50 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaroslav View Post
I am using ČSN 11321.21. (.21 = heat treatment - standardization annealing.)
For threshing into sheet metal good. I do not have a problem yet. Yet some colleagues talk about a problem in sheet metal.

Hi Jaro,
Maybe your "standardization annealing" = U.S. "normalization" ... ??


By the way, I know one one excellent Czech mechanic who does hydraulics, welding, fabrication, electrics. Nothing backs him away from a job. Last I heard from him, he was driving his camper truck from California, to Alaska, over to Siberia, and driving back to Czech Republic, saying "Why not? Have all my tools with me ... and truck ran great from Atlanta to Calif."


Love that Czech spirit!

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  #14  
Old 09-24-2018, 01:07 AM
Jaroslav Jaroslav is offline
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mila.JPG

mila02.JPGI use a sheet that is used for bending on a production press brake.

I had a similar friend. You inspired me. I created a new thread. Mila Urban was a great mechanic and a good guy. But he liked to tell peoples the truth. He had a little trouble with it.
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Last edited by route56wingnut; 09-24-2018 at 03:48 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-26-2018, 08:46 AM
rustreapers rustreapers is offline
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Default Draw quality 19 ga. shaping

I can't answering for David! But this metal is quick to respond to hammering, rolling n beading. Not to mention stump shrinking. Here is a practice wheel arch I did in about an hour n a half. I was going for a flare to the wheel arch to include tipping the opening back flat and (yet to) tip the panel under for the pinch weld to the tub. The tipped edge was easy to hammer/dolly and move around for a sharper edge. I will need to practice a lot more plenishing for a smoother panel but as easy as this metal is to move that should be no problem.
I am still looking for advice as to what panels the draw quality is best suited for.

IMG_1734.jpg
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Last edited by Steve Hamilton; 09-27-2018 at 07:56 AM.
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  #16  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:33 PM
dwmh dwmh is offline
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Thanks John I'll try to source some and have a play.
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2018, 09:15 AM
David Ward David Ward is offline
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I picked up the metal yesterday, anxious to get started!
Thatís a hell of a ride to Alaska in a newer truck, done it twice.
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2018, 05:15 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustreapers View Post
I can't answering for David! But this metal is quick to respond to hammering, rolling n beading. Not to mention stump shrinking. Here is a practice wheel arch I did ......

...............

I am still looking for advice as to what panels the draw quality is best suited for.

Attachment 48895

When I choose material temper I look for how fast it work hardens.
And can I readily shop-anneal critical areas, quickly.
By these simple criteria I can avoid trying to harden up selected full-soft (T-0) panel areas, and instead focus only to soften my work-hardened areas.

This example of yours is an annealed mild steel material, so I would use it in heavily-worked areas, where its strength would arrive to useful levels over 80-90% of the part area, whether by pressing, flow-forming or other hammering methods, or by wheeling, beadrolling, roll-forming .... or by cold-drawing.
The part below is 20ga (.041) mild steel CRS but a bit softer than the cheaper more widely-available flavor of harder temper. (I have zero specifics on material for you, as this sheetl is from the last remnants of a pile I bought from another metalman.)

901 _ 911 exh 1.jpg
This spiral shape is made using our Roughing Head hammer die over a domed steel lower die, using a #3 motor.
https://www.tinmantech.com/products/...ors.php#medium
Draw quality temper is another grade or two softer, and is unnecessary for the way my shop makes this part.


These parts are right off the Air PowHammer, with no other planishing done.
- (exhaust chamber section, Porsche 901)


-Hope this helps illustrate ...
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Last edited by crystallographic; 09-29-2018 at 05:18 PM.
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  #19  
Old 10-01-2018, 08:14 AM
David Ward David Ward is offline
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It does Kent.
When I began metal forming parts for my current project, after being away from bodywork for many years, I was buying 18 and 20 gauge drops at my local supplier. The drops work great for mostly flat or very low crown work, but all I knew was it was CRS. For some parts yet to be formed, quite a bit of dimension will be required, which is the basis of starting this thread.

You mentioned shop annealed metal, what is your process? Heating with a torch and beating has been my way of forming stubborn areas.
Dave
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2018, 01:14 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ward View Post
......
The drops work great for mostly flat or very low crown work, but all I knew was it was CRS. For some parts yet to be formed, quite a bit of dimension will be required, which is the basis of starting this thread.

You mentioned shop annealed metal, what is your process? Heating with a torch and beating has been my way of forming stubborn areas.
Dave

Hi Dave,
Shop annealed or "field annealed" means heat softening with no precise oven controls, so using a torch with some sort of temp. indicator for the hot side, holding the temperature for "soak" and then knowing the cooling rate and how to cool the metal for the quench side.
For annealing mild steel, heating the steel in a darkened room to a very dull red gives the upper limit - a rough 1300F, hold long enough for a thorough soak, and then cover the part with an insulating blanket or wood ash or sawdust ... etc ... and leave it to cool slowly for the quench/cooling side.
A sprinkle of Borax melts at 1365F, so heating from the back will show either color or melted borax, or both.


"Heat and beat" is also known as "hot working" and when working CRS at temps 1300F and above, work hardening is suspended for the duration of the 1300F. Quenching down from that is another matter.

I do not use cold water to quench any of my hot sheet metal work, though others may tout their doing so.

Rapid quenching of hot (1300+F) CRS yields hard metal that is difficult to work, akin to: "take aim at foot and pull trigger."

ASM is my "go-to" for metals info:
https://www.asminternational.org/doc...atTreating.pdf
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Last edited by crystallographic; 10-02-2018 at 06:26 PM.
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