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  #31  
Old 08-20-2018, 02:47 AM
Peter Tommasini Peter Tommasini is offline
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Originally Posted by neilb View Post
what type of machine are you building Peter? or should I say what is It based on?
Neil...
The machine I am concentrating on at the moment is all to do with shaping metal, this ''two machine in one'' does almost anything with an extreme good finish and that is ...... blocking, tuck shrinking, stretching, smoothing it can be used as a wheeling machine or a powerful planishing hammer, or it can be just a light planishing hammer, it will do any job in half of the time, very good and quick for return shapes and bulbous shapes, or smoothing welded areas. Most of the time even with a large panel only one operator is needed.
It cones standard with air hammer older, 5 dies, 3 hammer heads, air motor,air lines, all lubrication system, line up shaft, +3 hardened full radius lower anvils, top wheel and shaft.
Stronger air motors, different sizes air motor holders, dies, hammer heads, and anvils are available for extra cost
the cost of this machine (standard) is $11,000 AU + GST (.... the GST is only applicable in OZ)
PS if one already has a handbuilt cast frame, then the cost is much less
Visit www.handbuilt.net.au (under machine tools) for pics of the unit. I have one unit for shop use and I am very happy with it's preformance
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Metalshaping tools and dvds
www.handbuilt.net.au

Metalshaping clip on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh91hodPg

Making Monaro Quarter panel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM

Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 08-20-2018 at 08:10 AM.
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  #32  
Old 08-20-2018, 07:16 AM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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Originally Posted by HappyGoLucky View Post
If tax write offs are the only reason to be buying an expensive machine... as some have noted... I think that is a bad deal to begin with......
Running a shop on a shoestring budget because you (& I) can & do scrounge, make do and go without to maximize profit is nice to think about. So you do it because you don't know as much as you think you do. Then you get to write a $five figure check to the govt for being frugal and inventive because your income is too high and your expenses are too low. Even worse, just barely cross into the next tax bracket and make even less because you owe even more. You soon figure out its better to expense some of that money on anything allowed to retain equity than to simply give it to the govt. learning how to better manage resources is how you survive as a business because the money is going to go away one way or another. Period.

maybe you don't want to spend money on another whatever. but you can't keep the money as easily as you can keep the whatever. And if you're lying to hide cash or cheat the system, all bets are off. The same applies if you're a hobbyist that depends upon some other resource/employer for full time income.

There's a big difference between being able to build an untested machine cheap because of an occasional score of materials. Many here do that and like it when we can. Others even buy the real big deal machines for pennies on the dollar because that's what they do for fun. Occasional deals happen. Unless you can reproduce those results on demand whenever you need them, it's not a relevant argument. It's just a hat trick.

There's no need to keep bashing a specific company or product, especially if you are not a customer with a true actionable issue based upon failed product or customer service. Move on. Post your own build.

btw- I own no Baliegh products. I bought one of Peter's Hand Built cast iron English wheels, in part because I wanted it and in part for the exact tax reasons noted above. If I hadn't learned the hard (expensive) way, I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger. It's nice to not be smart like I thought I was.....
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  #33  
Old 08-20-2018, 01:07 PM
HappyGoLucky HappyGoLucky is offline
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Originally Posted by cliffrod View Post
Running a shop on a shoestring budget because you (& I) can & do scrounge, make do and go without to maximize profit is nice to think about. So you do it because you don't know as much as you think you do. Then you get to write a $five figure check to the govt for being frugal and inventive because your income is too high and your expenses are too low. Even worse, just barely cross into the next tax bracket and make even less because you owe even more. You soon figure out its better to expense some of that money on anything allowed to retain equity than to simply give it to the govt. learning how to better manage resources is how you survive as a business because the money is going to go away one way or another. Period.

maybe you don't want to spend money on another whatever. but you can't keep the money as easily as you can keep the whatever. And if you're lying to hide cash or cheat the system, all bets are off. The same applies if you're a hobbyist that depends upon some other resource/employer for full time income.

There's a big difference between being able to build an untested machine cheap because of an occasional score of materials. Many here do that and like it when we can. Others even buy the real big deal machines for pennies on the dollar because that's what they do for fun. Occasional deals happen. Unless you can reproduce those results on demand whenever you need them, it's not a relevant argument. It's just a hat trick.

There's no need to keep bashing a specific company or product, especially if you are not a customer with a true actionable issue based upon failed product or customer service. Move on. Post your own build.

btw- I own no Baliegh products. I bought one of Peter's Hand Built cast iron English wheels, in part because I wanted it and in part for the exact tax reasons noted above. If I hadn't learned the hard (expensive) way, I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger. It's nice to not be smart like I thought I was.....

Maybe Baileigh hasn't paid their dues... they came on the scene and tried selling expensive stuff... without having any relevant experience before. Like who came up with their die designs? Who did they copy for thumbnail dies? Etc... Don't try and tell me what works and what doesn't.... tax wise... because the tax codes change every year and if you are basing a longterm fairly expensive investment on the taxcode that is a mistake.

How do you know a machine design is untested? Maybe it is not... how complex are Recip machines.. anyways.... LOL they are very simple. I am not here to promote some other persons stuff... or why I bought it. I am here to share my build "once it is done"... to help others. Lol... Point of this thread is why are people stupid with their money... and like you have said "I thought I was smart by buying equipment before" when I should of just put my money in the then cheap, now inflated stock market... and sit back. My money I invested in equipment would have been millions of dollars in capital gains... hahaha. That's just how life works... there is always a winner and a loser regardless... Maybe you get your taxwrite off and there is some other person paying more than his share in taxes.... but that does not mean he is not smart. The goalpost is in the later terms of life, not 1/3 of the way... or even halfway... so I'm not really worried about some petty tax writeoff... I want to help people build machines for themselves. I have never met a metalshaper who would not prefer to build his own stuff... vs. buying it.

So, I am designing a Group share machine that does not cost a mortgage for the baseline people to build. If you want to pay extra money for something just for a tax writeoff.... go ahead... because someday that may go away.

Anyways... I would like to see some pics of your english wheel... I like Kerry's Imperial Designs.
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Last edited by HappyGoLucky; 08-20-2018 at 01:09 PM.
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  #34  
Old 08-20-2018, 01:47 PM
lots2learn lots2learn is offline
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Even worse, just barely cross into the next tax bracket and make even less because you owe even more.



Tax brackets dont work that way. Everyone pays the same on the lower earnings. If I make 50K and you make 100K then you pay the same on your first 50K as I do. Its a very common myth that jumping into the next bracket affects all of your earnings.
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  #35  
Old 08-20-2018, 03:00 PM
cliffrod cliffrod is offline
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Tax brackets dont work that way. Everyone pays the same on the lower earnings. If I make 50K and you make 100K then you pay the same on your first 50K as I do. Its a very common myth that jumping into the next bracket affects all of your earnings.

It's not a myth. I'm not talking about making a substantial difference. At the immediate threshold, it will/does make an impact to negate that extra minor gain in income. You have to make enough extra income to overcome the additional tax obligation or you are better off to not have that income in the first place.
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  #36  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:01 PM
HappyGoLucky HappyGoLucky is offline
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My machine is up and running.... minus the dies. Final tally out of pocket $100 since I found a cheap motor and utilized stuff I found sitting around. The most expensive stuff if bought would be the motor, the upper rod bearing... which actually could be different ( mine if bought new is $90, I got it off an old conveyor for almost nothing ) the other could be bought at fastenal for maybe ~$10.... the side plate material would be roughly $260 at my expensive supplier... cheaper at my best price steel supplier. Machine has a little bigger stroke around .160" because I wanted it to do more than just shrinking. The lift adjuster has ~.250" lift in 4 total stages... or 3 increments to bottom. More could be added once a full CAD design is put together... I did not have the room for more on mine... due to designing on the fly... anyways .250 is plenty for most things beading, etc. I will also note my sideplate design is similar to others already produced by metalmeet/allmetalshaping members... because they are proven sideplate designs.

Final time tally right now is 3 days under a full two weeks invested.... since I took a few days off the build waiting for stuff to show up via the Postal Service. If I had to expense my labor... machine time, etc.... and buy everything brand new to build the machine... I would say the machines are probably worth $4,000 - $5,000 finished.... more if you can actually make money with them and not just be a hobbyist.
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Last edited by HappyGoLucky; 08-25-2018 at 08:16 PM.
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  #37  
Old 08-26-2018, 01:05 AM
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neilb neilb is offline
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Originally Posted by HappyGoLucky View Post
My machine is up and running.... minus the dies. Final tally out of pocket $100 since I found a cheap motor and utilized stuff I found sitting around. The most expensive stuff if bought would be the motor, the upper rod bearing... which actually could be different ( mine if bought new is $90, I got it off an old conveyor for almost nothing ) the other could be bought at fastenal for maybe ~$10.... the side plate material would be roughly $260 at my expensive supplier... cheaper at my best price steel supplier. Machine has a little bigger stroke around .160" because I wanted it to do more than just shrinking. The lift adjuster has ~.250" lift in 4 total stages... or 3 increments to bottom. More could be added once a full CAD design is put together... I did not have the room for more on mine... due to designing on the fly... anyways .250 is plenty for most things beading, etc. I will also note my sideplate design is similar to others already produced by metalmeet/allmetalshaping members... because they are proven sideplate designs.

Final time tally right now is 3 days under a full two weeks invested.... since I took a few days off the build waiting for stuff to show up via the Postal Service. If I had to expense my labor... machine time, etc.... and buy everything brand new to build the machine... I would say the machines are probably worth $4,000 - $5,000 finished.... more if you can actually make money with them and not just be a hobbyist.
do you have any pictures to post yet? i am interested in what you have put together. mine cost me $500aud buying everything new. i have a 5mm stroke and 50mm easy of adjustment in the lower tool holder with screw locks to hold it in position.

would be great to see your ideas come to life so to speak
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  #38  
Old 08-26-2018, 01:06 AM
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neilb neilb is offline
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found your thread lol, lost it... did you delete it?
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Last edited by neilb; 08-27-2018 at 04:07 AM.
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