#41
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PS all will be shown on dvd N 11 Peter
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P.Tommasini Metalshaping tools and dvds www.handbuilt.net.au Metalshaping clip on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh91hodPg Making Monaro Quarter panel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM |
#42
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peter nailed it. most people who debate these sorts of things don't adhere to the golden rule of unfold the panel and use the die with the most contact at all times. I can get the same results with true radius and flats by using this rule alone.
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Steve |
#43
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To make 95% of shapes you need manipulations of the panel on the machine to the shape needed, rhythm, and most important VISION of what you try to make . Trow LOAD OF PRESSURE out of the window , Panels do not like to be squeezed , but instead they like to be worked on slowly and patiently . in another words rather then do one heavy pass do 3 but lightly and wheel only where it's needed. I do not like to make a contradiction with this (PLEASE USE ANY METHODS YOU LIKE OR ARE USED TO ) but I will show and prove the usages of flats and full radius anvils,+ pressure used and manipulation of any blanks on my N 11 dvd out soon ..... For example I will be wheeling a reasonably flat door skin with a much sharper anvil than needed, and demonstrate that with the right pressure and handling of the blank no lines or distortions of any kind on the finished skin Peter PS I am only trying to help so one can do the job properly, quickly and learn with out frustrations
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P.Tommasini Metalshaping tools and dvds www.handbuilt.net.au Metalshaping clip on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh91hodPg Making Monaro Quarter panel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM Last edited by Peter Tommasini; 03-20-2019 at 04:11 PM. |
#44
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I use the full-flat anvils/lower rolls for erasing mischief in damage. I also use flat dies in my bead rollers for erasing mischief. Sometimes cold. Sometimes hot, but I like having an eraser handy. Leftover from school days. Using the very low crown roll for a higher crowned part seems counter-intuitive, until you recognize "springback" and the harder the sheet is, the more springback you have. And no marks at all - flats or no flats, when using the correct roll/anvil. Marks schmarks. The panel that looks like a plowed field is obviously not the way to Wheel. Geometry at work = radius of roll vs radius of shape vs hardness of material.
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Kent http://www.tinmantech.com "All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919. |
#45
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I had the same question, that's why I did some digging of my own. if you read the email I posted it says that he has a set of original Ranalah anvils, but only 1 has a flat in it. and that is the only 1 he has seen. if anyone knows of someone that worked at rippon brothers in huddersfield or did their apprenticeship there it would be nice to ask the question!
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Neil |
#46
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I think you summed it up perfectly, Bob. Thank you!
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Kent http://www.tinmantech.com "All it takes is a little practical experience to blow the he!! out of a perfectly good theory." --- Lloyd Rosenquist, charter member AWS, 1919. |
#47
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[QUOTE]
Originally Posted by bobadame View Post There are 2 schools of thought, I have no idea which came first. "All the metal knows is PSI". These folks use anvils with flats and with these anvils, the technique is to bring the wheels together with enough force to squeeze the sheet metal a tiny amount. This thins the sheet along the path of the anvil flat. This thinning causes the sheet to extrude away from the contact zone and because metal is non- compressible, what it looses in thickness, it gains in area. Gravity causes the sheet to droop. Anvils with flats require the operator to track in a very precise pattern to achieve the desired 3D curve they are creating. These flat anvils must be held exactly parallel to the top wheel to prevent disaster. This leads the E-wheel frame builder down the path of stiff frame or some method of tilting the anvil to compensate for frame spread. Bob Not having used lower anvils with flats that often your statement above could work ?? But it seems a lot of work , care, and strategy and time is required to do a job . What as not been mention is what the flat anvils does at a certain point of wheeling bulbous shapes and smoothing (with no pressure reverse curves,) is that they will slow you down on finishing off and finished result. I will show just this issue on my next DVD called ''learn how to use an English wheel'' I guess what I am saying is that...... is NOT THE WRONG THING to use flat anvils BUT!!! Wheeling with FULL radius anvils is A LOT QUICKER and better results faster. Whether a cast or fabricated frame is used PS I have learned to use the full radius anvils and still do from 3 English tradesman which worked at Rolls Royce and Aston Martin for 40 Years before emigrating to Australia Peter
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P.Tommasini Metalshaping tools and dvds www.handbuilt.net.au Metalshaping clip on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEAh91hodPg Making Monaro Quarter panel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpOhz0uGRM |
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