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  #11  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:36 PM
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The other way to angle station elements -- the old fashioned method. This is from about 25+ years ago and I'm sure not OSHA approved given the attire. (and before all the TV shows)



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  #12  
Old 11-29-2016, 06:19 PM
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I'm thinking that instead of angling the outer edges of the buck in one direction, grind the outer edges of the stations so they form a 90 degree peak in the center so they would work on either side.
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2016, 06:36 PM
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The other way to angle station elements -- the old fashioned method. This is from about 25+ years ago and I'm sure not OSHA approved given the attire. (and before all the TV shows)



Looks like Chip Foose..?
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2016, 05:49 AM
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Bob, I think that is a good idea if you did that before your assembly. These pieces will assemble in a manner that allows either/both a left or right fender to be made. The pieces are the same if you flip them and turn over the base before starting assembly. One issue is that it would make the support stations a little more tedious to make, and it would also make using the buck as a hammer form less desirable. When making the Bugatti bucks, Jim and Peter were using the original fenders to initially determine where to grind the square edges of the buck and I felt bad about that because I failed to send Jim the 3D drawing that showed the locations of the grinding and the amount to be taken away. It would not have been a perfect way, but it sure would have saved them some time getting them much closer.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:42 AM
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I read the forum everyday and every time I come away amazed at the talent and knowledge of the members here.
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  #16  
Old 11-30-2016, 06:58 AM
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Long before CAD and waterjet, there was a discussion on MM about how to handle the slope of the panel and square edged buck components. Wray Schelin was a proponent of running the components through a bullnose tool (puts a full roundover on the edge) on a router. That way, the center of the buck component would be the contact point except for very extreme angles.

An additional advantage is it allowed the components to be reversible. If you taper one side and then reverse the buck then the contact area will be on the wrong side of the component unless it is offset by the thickness of the buck material.
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2016, 08:19 AM
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Just some additional thoughts:

It was the "except for extreme angles" concern that led me to consider left and right bucks for the Bugatti project.

Once the drawings is done in a 'reversible' manner, there are NO more drawing expenses, and No more setup charges at the water jet place. Additional wood for the rear Bugatti fender buck was $84.

If you include the holes for the assembly screws in the base it becomes reversible by merely flipping it over.

By using the 'slip-fit' method of assembly it does make reversing easier, (without the glue, the Speedster bucks assembled in less than 2-minutes), but if you want to keep these pieces reversible, glueing would eliminate that possibility, and if left unglued the individual parts would become worn with use. It was/is my intention to use a number of the ribs, etc. to locate/accentuate character lines, and loose fitting components would seem to minimize their usefulness in that regard.

I DO have a pair of FRIENDY water jet contacts, so once the set up has been made, the additional cutting time is minimal as the jet travels at a rather high rate of speed in wood vs metal cutting. In my mind that is a minimal concern as far as incurred expenses.

If the extra wood costs $84, the extra cutting was about $60, that is a total additional expense $144. If your shop charges around $75 an hour, you are ahead to lay out that $144, because by changing the fixture around only one time you are even in expenses. Every other time that you change the buck, you are losing income, and you still only have one buck.

I learned that in a discussion with Kerry, when we discussed the option of building a wheeling machine vs purchasing one. I had built two of his style machine, with a GREAT deal of GOOD help from him, and when we reviewed my expenses and time, it came out far ahead to buy one than to make one. By the time you ran down all the components, bought extra material, cut all the material and welded it together, it turns out that if you have any form of income it is more cost effective to buy a machine than take time off from your money earning occupation to build one.

It is my first thought that to switch bucks assemblies would take about the same time as the assembly of one additional buck. Trimming from .015" to .045" +/- off the edges would take noticeably less time than 'edging' the ribs, and you would not have to own the machine to do that with.

So far, each of the bucks that I have attempted were expected to be used for MULTIPLE applications. I believe that would be a vote for a more stable format from which to make multiple units.

Reversible bucks eliminates completely the possibility of building separate units at the same time, and if one gentleman was in the midst of building a 'right' unit, another gentleman could NOT do any work on a 'left' unit, like doing some light 'touch up' work, detail a character line, etc.

Perhaps the most deciding factor for this approach was that, at my limited experience in metal shaping the fact that a sturdy buck, capable of absorbing some hammer forming, would more lend itself to my skill level.

As always, these are just the thoughts of one old man.
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:30 AM
Mike Motage Mike Motage is offline
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Will, you have a good point. The ability to build a panel for the right side and then jump to the same panel on the left helps quicken the build. Especially for those not as experienced. Understanding the shaping process is more concentrated. A perceived issue with the first piece can be eliminated in the second. Also, when building front and/or rear fascias, avoiding a leaning look may make reversible bucks not so ideal.

There are so many variables in bucks and what a person or project needs that it is hard to say what is best.

Kerry, I believe you thread on pros and cons should be the sticky at the top of this section. Because it leads to understanding, to build what you need with that input based on their ability and budget. In the end smooth flowing finish work is still required for nice results. The buck helps keep your shape and panels in perspective.
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2016, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobadame View Post
I'm thinking that instead of angling the outer edges of the buck in one direction, grind the outer edges of the stations so they form a 90 degree peak in the center so they would work on either side.
Hi Bob, not sure that a 90 deg point would stand the test of time as it would be venerable to damage, the larger the contact point the longer it will last.

Hi Will, heartily agree that the most economical thing to do is to have left and right hand versions except when making a one off, although I have not tried it tubular sub structure would help to maintain a rigid buck, nothing worse than something moving while being used. While training with Geoff Moss he was of the opinion it was far quicker to wheel both areas of a L&R panel in the same operation.
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  #20  
Old 11-30-2016, 02:05 PM
Dave K. Dave K. is offline
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Will, that is very cool. I may have missed it, so pardon me if I did. Are you making a buck for an entire car or just the fender?

In the near future I will be making a wood form and since I have no ability to draw, it would seem that there would be money to be made for a company that can make drawings of forms/bucks for guys like me. With the drawings, we could take them to our local company to have the wood cut or cut the forms ourselves.

Thanks for sharing that, because it provides a lot of insight to making bucks correctly!!
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