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Old 11-24-2013, 09:19 AM
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Default Glass blower lenses for aluminum gas welding

I have a TM200 lens from the tinman for my aluminum gas welding, but a friend stopped by yesterday and said that these might be useable as well.

Anyone have experience or info or cautionary input for him? My concern was for ultraviolet protection.

Product Description



Schott Glass Technologies has developed a new contrast enhancement glass for spectacle lenses. The new material, called ACE, short for "Amethyst Contrast Enhancer," utilizes rare earth oxides in the glass composition to achieve the unique color enhancing characteristics. Basically, the color enhancement concept works by selectively positioning transmission in the blue, green, and red spectral regions whereby one can improve the color discrimination between different color objects. These are the same colors used to produce a color television picture. They optimize the readability of such displays under high ambient light conditions. ACE Glass utilizes rare earth oxides in its composition to provide the same filtration. This glass is very efficient in filtering sodium flare in addition to providing ultraviolet protection to 390 mm. The 2 ACE glass is becoming a preferable choice of lamp workers. It is very comfortable for viewing under high ambient light conditions such as when working with glowing heat sources for a duration of time. Also, although it has a relatively low luminous transmission of 38%, it is not recommended for sun protection use unless UV filtering coatings are applied.


http://www.amazon.com/Didymium-Worki.../dp/B000HJMAU2
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Last edited by RockHillWill; 11-24-2013 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 11-24-2013, 02:32 PM
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image.jpgI'm using a Phillips glasblowers lens. Didymium glasses.

This is the filter specifications they state at there website.

It's been a while since I did a quick analysis and I'm no expert. But as I can see it these lenses filter UV A, B and C and of course sodium flare. I don't know how it relates to the shading of green welding glasses.

I'll post a spectrum of AO welding I've found in a uni paper when I've found it on my computer.


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Old 11-24-2013, 02:34 PM
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And the OA spectrum.

I haven't found filter specs of other lenses to compare.

The equipment is rather expensive.

Take these specs as they are. As I sad I'm no expert and your eyes are very important.

image.jpg
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Last edited by Frank.de.Kleuver; 11-24-2013 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 11-24-2013, 04:39 PM
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Year ago i had a bought prescription Didymium glasses and use them and my tm2000 lens. Comfortable with both except for the cost.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:41 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank.de.Kleuver View Post
And the OA spectrum.

I haven't found filter specs of other lenses to compare.

The equipment is rather expensive.

Take these specs as they are. As I sad I'm no expert and your eyes are very important.

Attachment 24951
If you had the sodium, potassium and lithium emittance lines on there it would help, Frank. Then you could overlay the absorbtive curves of your proposed eyewear on top of that, and determine how effective the AGW (aluminum gas welding) lens might be at absorbing those spectra.
Good first step if your lens does absorb the right emittances.
But there are a few more steps yet.

How about:

1) shading. The ACE shown looks to have a S3 shade character, perhaps as much as 3.2, but likely more towards a 2.9. O/F welding demands an S5 for most applications using O/A, and with aluminum reflecting more radiation you still need a Shade 5.
2) blue light pass. Allowable is something like 10-15% of visible. Otherwise you get eye fatigue, squinting, dryness, itching.
3) IR, infrared. If you can feel heat on the eyeballs then your safety eye-wear needs more absorption in the near-IR range.
4) UV. As in "glassblowers' glaucoma" - if the welding safety eye-wear permits excessive UV pass (something like 1.5% of the total visible is the max, IIRC) - and combined with insufficient shading and extra blue light, the eyes can be pushed to disease levels, over time.
5) Impact Strength: drop a one inch steel ball directly on the lens from a height of 4 feet. Pieces of eyewear are not allowed to pass. Individual lenses in frames or goggles must resist same impact from a height of 6 ft.

All of this happened over a time of about 9 years, during the development of the TM2000 Oxy-Fuel welding and brazing lens. Fortunately, my third formula was excellent for absorption, but then the safety stuff got involved. Not the only problem was how to produce the glass accurately over time. ... with something like a .01% deviation over 10,000 lbs. After all that you have to protect, market, and sell them. I wore my prototypes for all my gas welding (dozens of hours per week) for 9 years, and it was nice to get that first piece of ground glass - not float glass like the rest of the cheapo stuff - nope, real clear glass. I also spoke to both Oberon and Gentex about doing a plastic version. Plastic does not hold optical characteristics over time, it seems. tick tick tick...turns into a pumpkin at midnight when exposed to the bright light of the oxy-fuel flame. I'm using the same lens for 22 years now. And I only started using a 1.5 cheater two years ago. I have great vision, yet, thankfully.

I am aware of the "sandwich" glass lenses sold by an eye-wear company comprised of an S2.3 didymium (praseodymium + neodymium rare earth oxides) glued to an S3 plain old float glass welding lens, for $99, plus shipping and a wait of 3 weeks. (or you can have mine). And the green plastic shield sold overseas, but be careful and don't scratch that plastic, tho.
(I've enclosed 3 photos of recent welds of mine on aluminum, so you will know why I have needed to see my welding clearly ... or it could have been much worse!!)

hope this helps the budding experimentalists.

AGW weld 1.jpg

AGW, cubic, hot pass.jpg

AGW louver.jpg
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:35 AM
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That are some great looking welds. I can weld like that once out of 5 times. So my consistency is very bad.

Developing this kind of products takes a long time and effort and one can discover a lot from competitors over the years (the good, bad and the ugly). As I sad, I'm no expert. Just someone who looked into things out of curiosity.

I stopped when searching how the levels for shading were to be compared. I assumed that the modern glass blowers were protected efficiently nowadays.

Thanks for your response,

Kind regards,

Frank
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:30 AM
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Frank -- My eyesight it perfect for reading. I take my glasses off when working on a computer, reading a book, ect. I do find a 1.5 or 2.0 strength reading glasses help me quite a bit when welding.

When my brother first started going blind, I took him to the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, AZ. A week getting evaluated at the Mayo Clinic is not cheap, but sadly there wasn't anything that could be done. I still amazed how many people tell me $200 for welding goggles, that's too expensive. It is damn cheap to protect your eyes.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:18 AM
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Frank --
When my brother first started going blind, I took him to the Mayo Clinic in Scottsdale, AZ. A week getting evaluated at the Mayo Clinic is not cheap, but sadly there wasn't anything that could be done. I still amazed how many people tell me $200 for welding goggles, that's too expensive. It is damn cheap to protect your eyes.
There is a time and place to save money. Cheap out on an angle grinder or a drill press maybe at HF (and you will probably regret it), but not on something like this.

I tried a $50 auto darkening helmet for tig welding. No, actually I tried 3 different ones. They would cut out and flash me, or not work at all, or whatever. Then I bought a miller for $250 and it works perfectly. So I didn't save any money in the end (spent over $450) and I put my eyes at risk. Dumb.

At least I was smart enough to buy the TM2000 and I find it works really well for 4130 and mild steel as well as aluminum. It is a lot of money for a small thing that fits in your hand and I am a Scot, and we are notoriously cheap. But I don't have time to become an expert in this stuff and I don't want to become a test guinea pig to save $100.
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:24 PM
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There is a time and place to save money. Cheap out on an angle grinder or a drill press maybe at HF (and you will probably regret it), but not on something like this.

I tried a $50 auto darkening helmet for tig welding. No, actually I tried 3 different ones. They would cut out and flash me, or not work at all, or whatever. Then I bought a miller for $250 and it works perfectly. So I didn't save any money in the end (spent over $450) and I put my eyes at risk. Dumb.

At least I was smart enough to buy the TM2000 and I find it works really well for 4130 and mild steel as well as aluminum. It is a lot of money for a small thing that fits in your hand and I am a Scot, and we are notoriously cheap. But I don't have time to become an expert in this stuff and I don't want to become a test guinea pig to save $100.

Yeah, with family from Glasgow and Goven I can relate to canny spending, too.
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:30 PM
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Sorry guys, but I don't think that the centre of the analysis is if someone is considered a cheapo or that someone doesn't like their eyesight.

Everybody thinks his eyesight is important. Period.
Are people doing stupid things to save money....yes, all the time. Period

I propose that the main analysis should be a technical one only.

As mr Kent states in detail is how he interprets the performance of the dydinium lenses.

What I know is that the TM2000 lenses do work great. I don't tested them for days but I learned welding with them for hours. But I also can say that these dydinium lenses also give a good view of the puddle thru the sodium flare.

What I want to find out is how save these lenses (both Phillips and the TM2000) are to give me a reasonable feeling for safety during OA welding ali. But purely based on scientific details. Both state they are safe and they perform excellent.

I consider myself a scientist but in a different field (electromagnetics). I like to stick to the facts and only try to rely on my feelings to give direction but never to come to a final conclusion.

I did my best to find some technical specs of the dydinium lenses. Maybe someone has more info.

Oh yeahr, I'm cheap also

Grt

Frank
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