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Old 02-03-2016, 09:36 AM
61unibody 61unibody is offline
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Default Alclad 3003 H14 O/A weldable?

I have a bunch of Alclad 3003 H14 in .063 thickness. This is considered a braze sheet. I think the cladding is 1100.

Just for some info on my experience.....I am just learning to gas weld aluminum and am having a heck of a time. I have no problem gas welding steel, and was certified for Aluminum Pressure Vessel work with MIG and TIG processes. I weld this same sheet with the TIG process with no problems.

Meco Torch #2 tip, 1100 wire and premium flux from Tinman, bottled spring water for flux mix. I have tried alcohol, acetone, water for cleaning. ScotchBrite, sandpaper, abrasive discs and stainless steel toothbrush as scrubbers. And Im using a toothbrush for flux application. I am using low pressure on the regulators and set them using the same technique I learned at the EAA Flyin in Oshkosh. I was able to weld aluminum there just fine. (Even had no problem with Oxy/Hydrogen welding there)

So heres what happens.... I cant get a puddle. I can get it to wet up with a wrinkly gloss, and can get the rod to melt into it after a bit, but little penetration. As soon as I think Im too hot, the bottom falls out. I wish I could see better in the videos what the weld puddle actually looks like. Maybe Im reading the puddle wrong....

MAYBE, Alclad braze sheet just cant be welded with O/A?????

Oh well, back out to practice......
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:24 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 61unibody View Post
I have a bunch of Alclad 3003 H14 in .063 thickness. This is considered a braze sheet. I think the cladding is 1100.

Just for some info on my experience.....I am just learning to gas weld aluminum and am having a heck of a time. I have no problem gas welding steel, and was certified for Aluminum Pressure Vessel work with MIG and TIG processes. I weld this same sheet with the TIG process with no problems.

Meco Torch #2 tip, 1100 wire and premium flux from Tinman, bottled spring water for flux mix. I have tried alcohol, acetone, water for cleaning. ScotchBrite, sandpaper, abrasive discs and stainless steel toothbrush as scrubbers. And Im using a toothbrush for flux application. I am using low pressure on the regulators and set them using the same technique I learned at the EAA Flyin in Oshkosh. I was able to weld aluminum there just fine. (Even had no problem with Oxy/Hydrogen welding there)

So heres what happens.... I cant get a puddle. I can get it to wet up with a wrinkly gloss, and can get the rod to melt into it after a bit, but little penetration. As soon as I think Im too hot, the bottom falls out. I wish I could see better in the videos what the weld puddle actually looks like. Maybe Im reading the puddle wrong....

MAYBE, Alclad braze sheet just cant be welded with O/A?????

Oh well, back out to practice......
Sounds like ... DIRTY ACETYLENE.
Yup, right from the store.
I bought a filter for just that problem and several friends have also.
http://www.perkinelmer.com/catalog/product/id/n9301399
Will go for a year, nonstop 24/7, in their applications.
Filter replaces cheaply.
And the filter does a better job after it filters for a while ....

When all else is accounted for ... best to doubt the gas purity...
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:57 AM
Marc Bourget Marc Bourget is offline
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Kent said: "And the filter does a better job after it filters for a while .... "

A conversation with a filter engineer and, later, a top level engineer who frequently was added to the engineering "design panel" for new engines, brought out the "compromise" in filter design. If you created a filter that, from the "get-go" could filter all but the really small stuff it would have to been too large (thus too expensive) so, the designer relies on the eventual build-up of "cake" (i.e., dirt) on the filtering element to achieve acceptable filter performance. So, at the beginning, the filter doesn't do so good until the "cake" improves filtering, at the end it "starves" the engine.

But the approach is felt to be an acceptable compromise.

FWIW
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:18 AM
61unibody 61unibody is offline
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Well, I'm gonna respond to this so it may help others. Although I still think I may have other issues (dirty Acet.) I was out practicing and thought about what I wrote here. I wrote that I had a wrinkly puddle(?) and thought "Hmmm oxidizing?" So I cranked up the carburizing flame quite a higher than I thought I needed, and wal-la a semi decent puddle.....and complete penetration......

But as you say, I believe there are still issues here. My outer cone is about 4x the length of the inner cone and still not a pretty puddle.

Brand new tank of Acetylene, looks like im gonna be buying a filter....

Thanks men!
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:54 AM
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Joe Hartson Joe Hartson is offline
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Alclad material has a very thin 1100 series aluminum on both sides of another alloy depending on its use. The material works best in a vacuum brazing process. This material is what condensers and evaporator cores are made from. The failure rate of Alclad material in the rolling mills is higher than most other products and some mills have stopped producing it. To seal the different alloys abuses the rolling mills because the screws that control the gap in the mills has to be run while the material is being rolled on the first pass. The mill manufactures say don't do this as it damages the screw boxes and damage does occur.

You may be dealing with some material that is defective and not properly sealed.
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Old 02-03-2016, 12:22 PM
61unibody 61unibody is offline
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Thats exactly what we use it for. Huge vacuum-brazed industrial heat exchangers. I have worked for almost 25 yrs and have seen a lot of braze sheet get sent to the scrap heap.... what a shame if it cant be used for something when not acceptable for higher standards.
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Old 02-03-2016, 01:12 PM
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Joe Hartson Joe Hartson is offline
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Dane, I spent 30+ years in the aluminum industry in all areas of the industry from mining to rolling mills and everything in between. The industry is in the process of going out of business in the US. The only part of the industry that is still viable right now is fabricated products, rolling mill, forging, and extrusions and I don't know how much longer they will survive.

I would think that if you want to weld alclad with a torch maybe if you cleaned/scraped off the 1100 alloy back from the weld area so that you were dealing only with the 3003 aluminum it may weld okay. I have never tried this but it might work, worth a try. The clad material is only a few thousands thick.
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Old 02-03-2016, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hartson View Post
Dane, I spent 30+ years in the aluminum industry in all areas of the industry from mining to rolling mills and everything in between. The industry is in the process of going out of business in the US. The only part of the industry that is still viable right now is fabricated products, rolling mill, forging, and extrusions and I don't know how much longer they will survive.

I would think that if you want to weld alclad with a torch maybe if you cleaned/scraped off the 1100 alloy back from the weld area so that you were dealing only with the 3003 aluminum it may weld okay. I have never tried this but it might work, worth a try. The clad material is only a few thousands thick.
(I've welded 6061 clad with no prob.... O/A and tiggy )
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Old 02-03-2016, 03:48 PM
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Kent, you have done a lot of thing that other can't do. The discussion was on 3003 clad.
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:08 PM
61unibody 61unibody is offline
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Is there such a thing as too much flux?
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