bad joints and metalshaping

[Gudmundur]

now i am not that fortunate to have full health and full mobility of my joints , i have arthrites and as much as i can swing a hammer and stay with simple hand tools , there might be a beter hammer out there with less shock to my joints or some tecnuiqe that i do not have , so share with me some wisdome of metalshaping with bad joints and limited mobility of arms and joints

[HEATNBEAT]

I have arthritis also. I don't swing to many hammers. Thanks to Ben's Bammbamm. He posted how he made it a few years back so I decided to build one for myself. I have a 6" sandbag for it. A urethane bumper several Delrin dished bottoms. I used a 1 HP 3 phase motor and a 110volt VFD. Anyone who has build one or used one will agree with me it sure saves the joint pain!
http://allmetalshaping.com/album.php?albumid=41

[weldtoride]

Gudmundur, something in your post reminded me of something I read on Lazze's page a long time ago, and I went looking for it and here it is:

"........I have realized that what I teach is a unique way of shaping sheet metal. The difference is that when I started my Metal Shaping carrier, nobody told me to first use the hammer and hammer out the metal to shape in a sandbag, so it looks like a "potato bag" and then use the wheel to smooth it out. This is the way it’s been done in the US and Great Britain for many years.
But for me it's hard to understand why you should take a nice flat piece of sheet and destroy it in the Sandbag and then go to the English wheel and try to fix all the marks/dents that you just create, when you can make it so much easier and really keep control over the sheet, when you Shape the Metal from the beginning in the English wheel, bead roller and the shirker/stretcher.
Why do the job twice?
I thought the wheel was meant to create the shape, and from that assumption Lazze’s Wheel was developed."


The above quote is from Lazze's history page: http://www.lazzemetalshaping.com/ind...=info/info.htm He is largely self-taught, and maybe that is why his approach is so different.

Personally, I am still a student in all of this so I am not trying to promote one method over another. Besides, my personal philosophy has always been to recognize there are many diffferent methods to solving most problems. Lazze does get great results with his approach that seems to avoid hammering when at all possible, and he does seem to have developed techniques that get the job done with minimal hammering.

I would love to take one of his classes someday, but his classes are expensive. However, he has been very generous in sharing a lot on you tube and his website. If you haven't spent much time there, I at least, found it very worth my time to study his techniques.

Hope this helps.

[lehr]

Rick, I'm guessing you built the machined parts, if so would you build those parts to sell ?

[Gudmundur]

[
"........I have realized that what I teach is a unique way of shaping sheet metal. The difference is that when I started my Metal Shaping carrier, nobody told me to first use the hammer and hammer out the metal to shape in a sandbag, so it looks like a "potato bag" and then use the wheel to smooth it out. This is the way it’s been done in the US and Great Britain for many years.
But for me it's hard to understand why you should take a nice flat piece of sheet and destroy it in the Sandbag and then go to the English wheel and try to fix all the marks/dents that you just create, when you can make it so much easier and really keep control over the sheet, when you Shape the Metal from the beginning in the English wheel, bead roller and the shirker/stretcher.
Why do the job twice?
I thought the wheel was meant to create the shape, and from that assumption Lazze’s Wheel was developed."

ahh lazze is a smart guy yes beadroller shrinker stretcher and a weel , no hammering straining the joints hmm now that is a new perspective

[HEATNBEAT]

Originally Posted by lehr

Rick, I'm guessing you built the machined parts, if so would you build those parts to sell ?

Hi, only with Ben's approval

[NXCESS]

I took Lazze's class #1.
Didn't think I would get much out of the bead roller portion or the shrinker / stretcher part. Boy was I wrong! Especially the bead roller segment. He showed me things I never thought possible. I have has a Pexto unit for 40 odd years. I am now building myself a powered heavy duty unit similar to the one that Lazze sells.
Yes he does not believe in a hammer and bag. I do think that a combination of his techniques and Peter Tommasini's is the way to go.
Just got Peter's first three videos, very informative.

[weldtoride]

Originally Posted by NXCESS

I took Lazze's class #1.
Didn't think I would get much out of the bead roller portion or the shrinker / stretcher part. Boy was I wrong! Especially the bead roller segment. He showed me things I never thought possible....... I do think that a combination of his techniques and Peter Tommasini's is the way to go. .......

That is great to hear about Lazze's class. It is not out of the question for me to take one someday, just way out of the budget currently. Also good to hear about Peter's videos, they are more in line with my current "educational budget" and on my radar as well.

[Gudmundur]

Originally Posted by weldtoride

That is great to hear about Lazze's class. It is not out of the question for me to take one someday, just way out of the budget currently. Also good to hear about Peter's videos, they are more in line with my current "educational budget" and on my radar as well.

yeas my budget is waiting for the lottery ticket with the right numbers on it , hmm maby i need to buy a ticket to win

[Kerry Pinkerton]

There are dozens of religions within MetalShaping. The Church of the Power Hammer will tell you that it is the best. Same for the Temple of the Ewheel or the Cathedral of hand tools, etc. And then there are the heretics (like me) who practice some of many religions. All will get you to the promised land. Some are faster, some are slower, some cost a lot, some cost little. Some have a very steep learning curve and some don't. Choose the ones that work for YOU.

You can send your money to the Televangelists on TV Sunday morning but it won't guarantee you admittance into the promised land. That requires talking the talk AND WALKING THE WALK. RULE NUMBER 1 There is NO magic metalshaping tool that will just create your panel for pennies in a few minutes. Not even Eckolds. Even if you spring for a high end, high dollar tool like a Yoder or Eckold, if you don't understand where to stretch and where to shrink, you're just going to make scrap quickly. That is, you have to WALK THE WALK, put in the time to understand what the metal needs to have done to it.

RULE NUMBER 2 - ALL THE METAL SEES IS PSI and the path of least resistance. Period. Full Stop as our Brit friends say.

Now, on to the question at hand. I have bad elbows and knees also. I use power tools to spare them so I can have a few more years in the shop before I have to take up knitting....that and I'm a well known tool whore. HOWEVER, I did put in the time (walk the walk) and know how to stretch and shrink the metal to get the result I want.

Don't be afraid of using reciprocating machines or helve hammers or whatever with doming dies to replace swinging a hammer or thumbnail dies to replace tuck shrinking. But realize that you HAVE to know how to do the manual methods. Refer to rule #1 then Rule #2.

I should have the rules made up on a sign.