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Old 05-20-2018, 07:44 PM
Steve Dussemberg Steve Dussemberg is offline
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Default Round Shank Tool Holder

I'm trying to build a centre tool holder to use on my P21S because mine doesn't have one. Well if I'm going to make one I might as well to something more flexible, affordable that can use many different diameters ROUND SHANKS. I was thinking about using ER40 collet system for precision, functionality and it's a heck of a lot easier to replace the collets, collet nuts and wrench. Well I came up with this design and I'd love to have your comments, critics and what not. I will make a 3D print of the tool holder before trying to fabricate one in steel. I'm still working on the plans and any help is greatly appreciated, so please have at it. Thanks guys

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Old 05-21-2018, 02:04 AM
norson norson is offline
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Looking forward to your progress. I'm planning to something similar for my Trumpf, but with square collets to match my Lennox.
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:16 AM
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neilb neilb is offline
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i bought the ER40 square collet block and collets for a 20mm rod for the thumbnail shrinker i am building

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=17938

somewhere near the bottom of the page, should work out fine


having said that you could just draw up a square collet to fit the tool holder and have it cnc'd or you machine it up if you have the equipment. if not try https://www.3dhubs.com/cnc-machining that way you can still use original tooling if any comes up
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Last edited by neilb; 05-21-2018 at 04:22 AM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:38 AM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Nice CAD work Steve. It looks like something that would have come from the factory.


Could you explain why you want to go with round stems? Won't it be much harder to index? What are you planning for the top collet? Nibbler brand machines use round stock but have a notch cut in the bottom of the tooling that indexes them.
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Old 05-21-2018, 08:40 AM
hot rivet hot rivet is offline
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Looks great but as Kerry says what about indexing the tool? even if indexed when installed they will tend to rotate as you screw up the height adjustment. Could you build a keyway into the lower holder and then just add a dowel to the shanks if it proves necessary.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:27 AM
Steve Dussemberg Steve Dussemberg is offline
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I have a couple of ideas on how to solve or minimize indexing problems. I will be posting updates here soon. I truly appreciate all the feedback and concerns about the design. Your comments and critics are what makes it possible to build a better final tool holder. Thanks guys.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:04 AM
toreadorxlt toreadorxlt is offline
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I built a similar one for a 5C shank, but found I would have to invert the collet to get the tool to lower without sticking.

The problem with the collet mounted as you have it, is that when you lower the jack screw, the tool wont want to lower with gravity. This is the reason Pullmax collets on the bottom are inverted.

IMG_7586.jpg

IMG_7603.jpg
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:11 AM
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sky sky is offline
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If you don’t mind the tool holder being longer a readily available 5c square collet could be an option. It has a keyway for indexing and will also keep you open for standard pullmax tooling. You can use a nut to push the collet in to the spindle instead of drawing the collet in, so you could shorten the collet and simplify the spindle as well.

I’ve attached some dimensioned drawings I found on the web to save you the time for searching.

I am at the same point as you and have decided to go with original P21 nuts and collets because I want the extra clearance from a short collet/collet nut on the top tool holder as well. You may want to keep that in mind because clearance is small on a P21 when using naida style tool holders or e.g. eckold tooling.



user12866_pic18801_1526913665.jpg

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In your drawings you have already knocked down the shoulder on the bottom tool holder giving you probably an extra 20mm clearance. You could probably even knock it down another 8-10mm. Using short collets on top and bottom will give you approximately another inch on the top and on the bottom. That's quite a win and you stay flexible by mixing long and short collet/collet nuts.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:14 AM
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sky sky is offline
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Good point there Steve! Thanks for mentioning it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toreadorxlt View Post
I built a similar one for a 5C shank, but found I would have to invert the collet to get the tool to lower without sticking.

The problem with the collet mounted as you have it, is that when you lower the jack screw, the tool wont want to lower with gravity. This is the reason Pullmax collets on the bottom are inverted.

Attachment 47475

Attachment 47476

Last edited by sky; 05-21-2018 at 10:18 AM.
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:39 AM
toreadorxlt toreadorxlt is offline
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the ER collet might be different if the collet Snaps into the nut.. It might actually lift the collet out of the taper but it wasn't the case with my 5C collet. I ended up making a rod doc style lower and it works great for me.
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