Meeting customer requests

[cliffrod]

Clear communication matters.

The original query asked a specific question, based upon known information regarding a finite job, and how to adjust his pricing accordingly. No tangents or extras. In such a situation, I strive to be able to quantify the difference between known result A and known result B to reassure the patron and secure the project.

There's generally 4-5 price levels of accuracy/quality/finish which I can offer for the same finite job if a patron requires such information. Some projects are so treacherous that they may be quoted at a multiple of what the job might actually require at every level, simply to warranty the very real possibility of 1-2 failed efforts.

There is a benefit to offering a patron multiple specific price levels. A very successful and wealthy financial mentor (I was Executive Chef at his Inn) taught me how competing prices induce bias in the buyer's mind. We offered a (ridiculous) $250k honeymoon dream package to boost sales of more moderately priced packages. $20k sounds reasonable compared to $50k or $100k vs sounding like highway robbery when compared to $5000. The goal is to upsell towards the central numbers. Done properly, options #2 and #4 out of options #1-#5 are the sweet spots. You don't really expect to sell the big number$$ but sometimes they do if you offer them. My last stone job that sold for such a top price shipped in Dec. Very cool.

The blank check patrons exist, but they're scarce. 20 yrs later, this overall approach in a very tough business is still working for me. What works for others is what works for others.

It doesn't matter whether you have a finite or running tab budget. It doesn't matter what the specific discipline is. Entering into any work contract situation without excellent communication is a quick path to failure.

[drivejunk]

Mental manipulation ("upselling") just isn't something the boss and I are into. We respect people more than that. I trained for and started a career in advertising, which may come as a shock. But ours is a dusty, shaving optional, t-shirt and jeans environment and we communicate real well. I text back and forth discussing modifications directly with customers, but never price.

I make sure my work area and their vehicle are presentable when they visit to pay a bill. We have laughs, pull ideas from blue sky, make peelout and exhaust noises, answer each other's questions, jab one another with healthy brand rivalry, shake hands, and they leave donuts or sometimes buy us pizza. Then they pay the current chunk and go. Cool cars are the common thread, banquets and tombstones just don't come up much. Sometimes we even cuss. No putting on airs.

If I sold hamburgers, I would not push fries or large drinks, nor would I display a hundred dollar hamburger to sell fifty dollar ones. I would do my best to offer good burgers at a reasonable price so everybody wants one and can get it. And be happy.

My list of AMS taboo subjects is growing as I add money to MIG welding. On other forums for example, bare metal coatings and acid products are off limits for me. At least I am sufficiently advanced as to make a convex oval patch but thats about all.

I am obviously on a different scale, not as good the rest of the members here in any way. I am not suited to this environment, that is easy to see. My questions don't belong here. Feel free to drop the subject unless we can talk about shaving a gas neck hole for how much. I keep thinking somewhere in the long posts, there will be an answer. Now I feel like a fool for asking. This is why my work just isn't seen here.

Have a good day, gents. I gotta go do metal stuff to an old rusty truck.

[drivejunk]

One more attempt to boil it down...

If you shave a gas neck hole without bondo, is that worth more than a hundred US dollars?

[drivejunk]

I apologize guys... kinda woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I will hush. Again, thanks for your patience.

[Chris_Hamilton]

Originally Posted by drivejunk

One more attempt to boil it down...

If you shave a gas neck hole without bondo, is that worth more than a hundred US dollars?

Yes, most definitely. Don't know if you mean pay to you, or cost to the customer but either way yes.

I thought from reading your posts that you wanted a broader discussion than just that. My apologies if I led it off course.

[cliffrod]

Specific dollar amounts for metalwork aren't very common here. Talking about other things is all there is.

Your price is your price. If $100 +? satisfies & sustains you and you can sell it, it's a fair price. It doesn't matter what anyone else charges.

"Upselling" has more than one meaning. Adding poor-quality work to my portfolio is not an option, so I don't do it. At this level, extra fees generally mean additional opportunity for patron involvement. I'll do my very best work and probably much faster if they leave me alone to be the expert I am. Providing a average price plus 1-2 ways to save money and 1-2 ways to buy more of me is a very honest way to provide options.

[Sinister Sleds]

Don't really have an answer. I try only to deal with folks on a time and materials basis as each job is different. I tracked about 40 hrs in the Henry J roof and back. The customer told me there was 1 dent in the roof.

I probably have an equal amount of time in the hood. The body is all nicely crowned the bood however was rotted under the rear hinge frame. Make jig, remove frame, weld a 10"×4" panel on the rear edge and metal finish. The rear edge had no bead or fold over edge and is low crown so perfect storm. Once done it was similar to the body. Customer took it home and decided to grind off 1/8-1/4" after fabricating some front tilt hinge contraption with no adjustment And now there is a big bulge where the surface changed.

There is 1 coat of epoxy to seal it. 1 application of high build primer (3 coats), sealed with epoxy and sprayed. Finish you see was out of the gun no buffing.

As to your original question. The pic you showed is maybe 1-2hrs for metal work. You would have hard time metal finishing beyond what was pictured because you would be raising the surface to meet the bondo creating a high spot. You have access to both sides I assume. If this were a gas filler on the side of a flat panel with no back access then that's a different story.

I believe the no filler thing to be myth. I believe most cars going into body shops are getting a skim of filler of some kind. There is a shop close to me and he claims no filler but it's simply not true. He spot skims and then will spray poly a car 2,3,4× then high build it 2+ times. In my mind that's not exactly no filler. My spray poly gun can probably layer on 1/8" per application if I want it to so 4 applications might fill 3/8" imperfections. Spray poly is nothing but spraying bondo.

Sorry about the long winded response. Not sure how to get the pics to post so you will have to click attachments.

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[drivejunk]

Cool Henry J. Yeah no bondo must be a hobbyist pursuit. I thought people were out there offering that service but now consider myself to be mistaken about it.

Best I can figure, the thread title is where I screwed this up. Really missed the mark there. If you guys want to use the thread to express yourselves on that, feel free to continue. The gas hole was history before posting the thread. It was the simplest example I could generate and was something I did as a relief break between harder stuff. I rolled with the discussion best I know how and gathered a few relevant sentences but we can stop trying now. I am satisfied.

[Chris_Hamilton]

Nice work Jay.

[Sinister Sleds]

Originally Posted by drivejunk

Cool Henry J. Yeah no bondo must be a hobbyist pursuit. I thought people were out there offering that service but now consider myself to be mistaken about it.

Best I can figure, the thread title is where I screwed this up. Really missed the mark there. If you guys want to use the thread to express yourselves on that, feel free to continue. The gas hole was history before posting the thread. It was the simplest example I could generate and was something I did as a relief break between harder stuff. I rolled with the discussion best I know how and gathered a few relevant sentences but we can stop trying now. I am satisfied.

I think you can get close to no bondo. There are definitely some guys out there getting close but if you read their posts long enough the may leave the meta shop and head to the body shop.

I don't necessarily think you missed the mark on the thread title. Managing expectations is difficult. If you are lucky you find a customer that will allow you to do the work and get paid for your time. I'm going on 30 years and have yet to come across that customer. Then I know of shops that have those customers and are doing lesser jobs. Really there is no easy answer. I work about 80 hrs + a week (usually at the shop around 6am and leave around 8pm) today was 12 hrs and billed 4. It gets frustrating at times.