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Old 11-24-2010, 12:14 AM
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Kerry Pinkerton Kerry Pinkerton is offline
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Default Jay Hayes CP 36 style Planishing Hammer Kits

Most folks that have been around the community a while have heard about the MetalShapers Association (MSA) planishing hammer group build. John Buctenkirch, Wray Schelin, Dick Strever, Dan Shady, George King, Jay Hayes, and many of the other early members of the metalshaping community were involved.

CP hammers in general, and the 36" model in particular are very scarce and command HIGH prices when they show up. Numerous members wanted a top of the line hammer but simply couldn't get one due to either availability, cost, or both. Jay Hayes volunteered to take the design and make plasma cut kits available. In addition, a casting was made of for the head that could be machined. Jay also made contact with Michigan Pneumatics as a source fo the CP style air motors and dies.

Following are several photos of the kit and several completed machines. Welded arms, machined casting, and pinch clamps.

5all-welded.jpg

Plasma cut arm components

5Jay-Hays-CP-arms-project.jpg

Partially assembled frame without a mid arm or linkage.

5My-CP-project.jpg

Another frame with mid arm and side linkage. I think this is Tony Sanchez machine.

18tools_a.jpg

Close up of the casting bolted into the top arm showing how the mid (and lower) arms can swing on the pinch clamps for changing dies or work clearance. Notice how the die holder can slide in and out of the mid arm.

four.jpg

Another completed frame.

plan1.jpg

And one more.

two.jpg

There have been quite a few of these built...I'm guessing 30+ but Jay knows for sure. Dutch Comstock, Gator, Bennett Chapman, and I all own one.

Jay sells the components as a you-weld-it kit and will sell you as much or as little as you want. Some folks just want the plasma cut arms and casting but other also want the DOM tubing for the back tube and larger DOM tubing for clamps. Motor castings are available raw or machined. (If I had it to do again, I buy the machined version, it's a lot more work than it looks to machine it.)

Contact Jay Hayes at jay@hrea.coop for prices and details. Jay prefers not to list prices because they change with the price of steel on a sometimes daily basis.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:43 AM
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Hi Kerry ,

good to hear from Jay again....great guy

Ben
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:32 AM
tnblaster tnblaster is offline
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Thanks for posting thi info Kerry. I now have resource for parts that I didn't have bfore. I really need a phammer.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:54 PM
ShawnMarsh ShawnMarsh is offline
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I know you can't post a price as it always changes, but could you give us a ROUGH guess so we don't flood him with unnecessary emails? Are we talking $1000, $5000, $10000?
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:20 PM
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These are MY estimates. You need to talk to Jay to get real prices.

Unmachined casting $55 or Machined casting $300
Michigan Pneumatics CP style air motor $450 complete
Dies are about $45 ea
Plasma cut upper and lower arms $375
Plasma cut mid arm $125
DOM for clamps $75
4" DOM tube for column $350
4140 Die holder stock for both arms, not machined $65

You should be able to get it built for somewhere in the $2200-2700 range (with dies) depending on how good a scrounger you are and what you have to pay for machine work. Sourcing some of the stuff locally might save you some on shipping.

The additional $250 for a machined casting is well worth it. There is basically a day of machine work and it's all precision work.

Drill press bases work great or you can fabricate something but you have to consider the overhanging weight and build accordingly.

You'll still need to do some drilling and cutting as well as welding things together. If anyone decides to build one I can take lots of photos of mine. Dutch has one also.

The linkage can be simple or pretty difficult. I chose to run mine up the column and inside the top arm using bellcranks and rod and it was a challenge. Works fine and looks great though. But the sheet metal doesn't care.
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:06 PM
bcross13 bcross13 is offline
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Kerry,
Do you think the machine works as good as an original cp hammer?
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:59 AM
ShawnMarsh ShawnMarsh is offline
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Thank you for that breakdown Kerry, that gives a much better picture of the type of money we're talking about here.
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:39 AM
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I will be "upgrading" our hammer soon to the 4" DOM style column, new arms, new ideas, and I will document the build. I am working on it .25 hours a week, so dont expect any lightning fast progress

The old base and arms will be up for sale, if anybody is interested.

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Old 11-25-2010, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcross13 View Post
...Do you think the machine works as good as an original cp hammer?
I've never used an original CP so I can't say with any authority. (Not that it's ever stopped me before...)

However, I can't help but believe they are at least as good as the original. The air motors are the same and are new as opposed to worn out like most the originals are. The frames are more robust with tool arms that offer more adjustability. The foot pedals on many of the MSA style are detached from the base so you can move it wherever you want for comfort and control.

Neil Dunder's small CP style hammer is magnificent. Works like a dream and it comes all adjusted and set up. The MSA hammer will require some tweeking and dinking to get everything 'right'.

The way these things work is that the air motor (Type 2) has an air inlet port about 1/2 up the tube...actually exactly 1/2 up the tube. The casting has a precision bore that the air motor slides in. The casting has an air passage in the back center of the bore. As the air motor is pressed down, these two air holes start to meet and that determines how much power the motor puts out. The motor must be a very good fit in the casting bore. We drilled, reamed, and finally honed so it was a nice slip fit. When you build your linkage you must tune it so everything lines up air port wise when your foot pedal is where you want it. Not hard but can take some time.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:05 PM
bcross13 bcross13 is offline
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Thanks for the info Kerry I hope to get one of neils hammers soon.
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