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  #11  
Old 05-20-2016, 11:44 AM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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Default Torch vs TIG, a list of a few points to consider

I wrote this list in an earlier form 15 years ago, for presentation at events in the Aviation community, around the US.

It is by no means a complete list, but it may help refine your choice of using a TIG or a humble O/A torch.

TIG
Welds more alloys
Faster start-up heats
Welds thicker materials
Less post-weld cleanup
Can have less distortion
Can have better weld appearance
Removes broken studs
Has cache’

O/A Torch
Cheaper to keep
Fast/simple to set up
Fewer diagnostics needed
Better weld penetration on aluminum alloys
Zero weld density issues on aluminum alloys
Self-normalizes when welding 4130 chromoly
Welds cast iron with zero density issues and welds are machinable
Works in breezy conditions
Works in wet conditions
Less pre-weld cleanup
Better pre-heats
Cuts 20ga – 1mm steel with a welding tip
Brazes
Solders
Anneals
Hardens steel alloys, carburizes
Performs hot working, bending
Removes stuck nuts/bolts/screws
Provides illumination
Reveals exact areas on steel where back-side rust-thinning has occurred
Colors metals
Improves epoxy/Locktite setup times
Dries paint/primers
Softens adhesives
Polishes cut Lexan/Lucite edges
Makes espresso
Cooks sand dabs (Spirit of St. Louis’ opening scenes….?)
Toasts tortillas, other food items
Decants (oxygenates) wines very quickly
Eliminates pesky flies, bugs
Eliminates ground-dwelling hornet nests, permanently and completely, - every single time.
Provides celebratory detonations
Improves potato ballistics

I was initially trained on the TIG, went to school for it. I owned a torch set at home, but proudly used the big Lincoln 300 at work.

I was laying on my back, welding the back sides of my TIG welds on these big old Bugatti T57 Atalante fenders one day (as usual), and Harry Morrow (ex-Rolls Royce metal man, RAF builder - WW2) walks over and says very forcefully at me, "why don't you use the f'in' torch on that aluminum work instead of that stupid f'ing TIG machine? !!!!"

So, after talking with him about the traditions of aluminum coachbuilding, I started trying to figure out how to O/A torch weld the stuff, because nobody on the crew or anywhere in my world knew any specifics about it, at all. ---- Once I got onto it I never looked back.
(I bought my Miller TIG new in 1982 and still use it, almost every week.)

I'll make another post on "weld density" issues with aluminum welding.

Anneals coffee Osh 02 sm.jpg
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2016, 12:12 PM
toreadorxlt toreadorxlt is offline
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kent have you played with modern inverter tig machines where you have way more control over the AC wave than your 1982 model?
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2016, 01:00 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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kent have you played with modern inverter tig machines where you have way more control over the AC wave than your 1982 model?
Nah, just the ancient Dynasty....
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  #14  
Old 05-20-2016, 07:00 PM
toreadorxlt toreadorxlt is offline
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Nah, just the ancient Dynasty....
haha
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Old 05-20-2016, 07:51 PM
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Both Tig and gas are cool, with their own unique skill set. Do you wanna be new fangled fancy pants cool or do you wanna be old skool cool?

I like with gas how I can tease metal in the plastic state where tig just instantly melts everything it touches.

I like tig for the ability to get in, weld, and get out fast. Like welding SS trim on the back of a caddy

I like gas because it totally freaks people out when the panel moves. A lot.

I like tig because I can quickly weld 1/2" plate...

I like gas because I use it to preheat that 1/2" plate I need to tig weld.

Personally, either planishes out equally well, a bit more distortion with the gas because of more time in a localized spot, I am decent enough with a hammer dolly shrink disc where it all works out in the end. I reach for one over the other, well, because one happens to be nearer or the other's tank(s) are empty.

Marty
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Old 05-20-2016, 10:51 PM
crystallographic crystallographic is offline
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I like with gas how I can tease metal in the plastic state where tig just instantly melts everything it touches.

Marty
When I re-weld a failed weld on aluminum sheet, I watch for the telltale signs of 4043 (ugh!).

The torch sensitively dismantles the solid aluminum by first melting out the low solidus 4043, and then the large chunks of 3003/5052 start to melt into the growing pool. Pretty hot to watch a 45F temp difference at work when you are working to isolate why the weld failed by using the torch as a simple indicator.

Use "appropriate technology" as I've said in public for many years.
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2016, 11:24 PM
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Frank.de.Kleuver Frank.de.Kleuver is offline
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But what are the best tricks/settings to try and mimic a gasweld with a tig? Low amps, big blunt tip, go slow, less cleaning action)? Or just be gentle during planishing? I've got myself a tig for steel and ali construction and because I was curious.

The funny thing was when I first practised Tig on ali I found myself feathering the torch distance like with the OA ;-) Mechanical pulse welding

Could someone share their favorite settings when doing Tig on ali? I know machines are different but maybe some basic starters could be helpfull.

Kind regards,

Frank
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  #18  
Old 05-21-2016, 11:25 AM
elavir elavir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toreadorxlt View Post
for steel id say its a waste of money.. and for aluminum too.. i'd argue i can get tig welds just as durable as i can get with meco with a few little ninja tricks.
Hi Steve,
You make me very curious how one can make a tig weld as durable as a gas weld. Are you willing to share this knowledge with us?

Cheers Richard.
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Old 05-21-2016, 03:21 PM
toreadorxlt toreadorxlt is offline
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i really dont do anything more than the average person, except I scrape my filler rod, and maybe weld a little hotter than most.. 100amps on .060 3003 with 1100 rod. 2% thoriated 3/32

heres some torture pics.


initial planishing...
couple hammer whacks?
planished on the planisher then wheeled.

ran 3 passes with the thumbs through it... its between the blue lines

same deal... planisher, wheel.


through the weld. there is a baby crack on the edge as you can see, but i didnt exactly weld it good there. im confident i can do it with no cracks when needed. If it holds up to a round of bag work, three thumbnails passes, 3 planisher passes, and 2 wheel sessions, i have no problem leaving my flux on the shelf.

Edit - actually after seeing the part and earlier pics, what appears to be a crack is weld proud of the surface. theres no cracking in this piece.
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  #20  
Old 05-21-2016, 04:04 PM
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Frank.de.Kleuver Frank.de.Kleuver is offline
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That looks very good. 100Amps at 0.060" sound not that much. But I'm very new to Tig. So does it take a few seconds before the ali melds at 100A?

What do you mean with 'scrape the filler rot'?

Thanks for sharing

Frank
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