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Old 05-06-2009, 12:09 AM
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Default Shaping a Bowl**

This thread was originally posted on the old site. The original thread with photos can be found here:

http://allmetalshaping.forumsdot.com....php?f=11&t=12

Please make all new posts for this thread on the new site...that is HERE. We will be working to get the photos moved over.



This is how I got started.I put all of my projects to the side and have been doing nothing but asking questions and practicing the basics of sheet-metal shaping.

Shaping a bowl was one of my first practice projects.This will give you a understanding on how to shrink some metal.

Lets start off with what tools you will need to get started.

The first thing you will need is a stump.You want to find a hardwood stump.I made mine out of oak.

20080429_2.jpg


I made the dish 8'' around and 2'' deep.They say your dish should be more of a cone then a 1/2 hemisphere.

The next thing you will need is a is a heavy hammer.You can spend a lot of money on a good shaping hammer.They are worth every penny of it if you plan on shaping a lot of metal.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money on your shaping hammer.Make one out of a baseball bat.It will do the trick.


20080416_1.jpg



You will also need a slapper.They are easy to make,find a leaf spring and use that for the head of the slapper.Make sure you true the head of the hammer up wit a file and get it perfectly smooth.Then sand it with finer and finer sand paper until the head is perfectly smooth.



20080407_1.jpg

I even made my own dolly's,so in total you only need around twenty dollars worth of tool.and a weekend to make them.



20080414_2.jpg


I made a bunch of different styles but you get what I mean.

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````

Getting started you need to get a blank cut out first I used electric shears but you can cut it out with some snips.

I cut out two blanks.If someone shows the interest in shaping one bowl and post your progress I will show you how to copy it.Making one is good practice but matching one is where you will start becoming a metal shaper.

20080418_4.jpg



The next step will be putting in some tucks into the blank.


20080418_9.jpg


Concentrate your blow in the angle that I have shown.You are trying to drive the metal into the side of the bowl.If you do it right it will cause a fold in the metal(tuck).

You can crush them out one at a time.I just lay a bunch of tucks in it all the way around the blank.



20080418_9.jpg


Hold your blank back into the dish and just crush the tucks out on the side of your dish.

Should look something like this after the first round of shrinking.


20080418_10.jpg



Now start your next set of tucks right on the inside of the first set of tucks.Were going to do this all the way to the bottom of the dish.



20080418_11.jpg


This will cause more tucks.


You can see the hammer blow it's just above the right side of the tuck.

Like I said I just hold the blank up to where I can smash out the tucks in the bowl to get as much shrink as I can out of each tuck.



20080418_15.jpg


Also..I will rotate the blank in the same angle shown above and hammer it all the way around.to keep the bowl as true as I can on my way down to the bottom of the bowl.

Just keep working it all the way to the bottom.Doing the same as you have been doing.



20080418_17.jpg

After you get to the bottom it will look like this.



20080418_16.jpg


It's pretty rough so now using the inside of your dish as a dolly.Rotate it around hammering as you go and smooth it out.I use a little dead blow hammer after it starts to get smoothed out.

After I get it smoothed out as best I can I use my slapper and dolly to smooth it out the rest of the way.Earlier I showed a tow ball dolly that is not what I used for the dolly.Use your slapper in a sweeping motion.



20080418_19.jpg


Smoothing it out took some time but here's some pictures of it after I sanded it down.Notice in the picture where the bowl is sitting in the dish of the stump.It a lot larger then the dish of the stump,we didn't just smash a piece of metal to the bottom of a bowl.We actually shaped something here.




20080419_1.jpg



20080418_21-1.jpg


This was the start of a bad addiction for me.I went to the doctor and they don't have a pill for it.

Good luck and hope this helped.If you do shape a bowl please post your progress.It would thrill me to

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Old 06-06-2009, 10:18 AM
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Default Having a go

Hi Johnny
Thought that i would have a go at making a couple of bowls, so started with 2 10" dia blanks 38 thou thick crs4 .

Started hitting the blank over my stump

got this far rasing tucks and smashing them down.

Then got a bit stuck couldn't get anymore good tucks to form so ended up smash the rest of the shape in the bottom of my stump.

Cheated on the planishing and did it in my e-wheel.


So that was attempt no.1 it was all done in a very random way.
Attempt no.2 Started by marking up the blank into sectors.



I thought that i might go about the second attempt in a more controlled way. So started hitting the blank and smashing the tucks back down.



This is what i got after going round 3 times.



This was the last round of tucks i could get alot more than the first bowl i think i'm starting to get an idea of how to get them to form.



Evened the shape up a bit .



And ran it throught the e-wheel.



The two bowls together, the first is on the left finnish is a bit better but then i spent longer on the wheel with it the overall shape of the second is a lot more even than the first . So what do people think this was my first try at making bowls out of steel. But the question is how do I make a copy of them????

I have created an album BOWLS? with a load more pics in sorry the order is secquential but backwards , didn't think about it as i uploaded them .
http://www.allmetalshaping.com/album.php?albumid=50 is the link to the album.
Hope this post might inspire some of you other beginners to metal shaping to have ago. I know this pass time is dam addictive I feel it will cost me loads of time and hopefully one day i'll be able to make something worthwhile
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Last edited by Chris Bspoke; 06-06-2009 at 11:05 AM. Reason: add link
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Old 06-06-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Bspoke View Post
...
I have created an album BOWLS? with a load more pics in sorry the order is secquential but backwards , didn't think about it as i uploaded them . If any of you computer geeks would like to add a link to the album and then tell me how to do it it would be much appreciated....

Here you go Chris:

http://www.allmetalshaping.com/album.php?albumid=50

What I did was click on your name to get your profile, select the bowl album from your album list on the right side of your profile, and then copied the URL of the album once it came up. This was then pasted above.
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Old 06-07-2009, 09:47 AM
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Default Nice job

Chris you said you hope it inspired someone,Truthfully you inspired me.Thanks for taking the time to do it and post your progress.

You asked how to copy it so I will try to show you how.

My son re-shaped the bowl that I posted so I no longer have it .So I shaped a real quick bowl to show you how to take a flex pattern off of it.

If you want to copy it,a flex pattern will be the first thing you will need.There are other ways you can do it.Paper patterns or what have you.Maybe someone will show how to do it with a paper pattern.

I use flex patterns.

The first thing you will need to do is lay down a layer of low stick masking tape.Lay it down as flat as you can,overlaying the tape a 1/8".

quill holder 070.jpg

I use a file to trim the tape,it works really well.

quill holder 072.jpg

Next you will cover the low masking tape with a strapping tape.Overlay the strapping tape 1/2 the width of the tape on each pass.

I have been using re-enforced duck tape,and I love it, it's cheaper and easier to use.

quill holder 074.jpg

Next lay down some reference lines and some site holes.The reference lines are where I will check my contour gauges and the site holes are for insuring you lay your pattern in the same place every time.

quill holder 075.jpg

Now I would make a contour gauge.I just made it out of cardboard.You should only need one and it should work no matter where you check it.

quill holder 076.jpg

quill holder 077.jpg

Now you are ready to pull the pattern.Just kill the tackiness of the tape with some baby powder.

quill holder 078.jpg


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK from what I can see your bowls are pretty close to being the same already.Take your pattern from the best one.After you get the pattern made lay it on the other one.Make some reference marks through the site holes on to the metal to insure you place your pattern in the same place every time.This is very important.

Now either place some magnets or tape or clamps to hold the pattern on to the bowl.Look for any air under the pattern.I usually work on one spot at a time.Raise that area to where it fits the pattern.If it is more than a 1/16" put it back on the bag and stretch it to the pattern.Or your planishing hammer will work as well.Personally I would just use a hammer.A little hard faced rubber hammer is my weapon of choice.

Go over the whole bowl until that pattern is fitting the bowl like a layer of paint.

After you get the pattern fitting you can pop the bowl into arrangement.This is where the contour gauge comes into play.Never use your contour gauge until you have your panel fitting the pattern.

If the panel is fitting the pattern it will go into arrangement.It usually just takes a little push or pull here or there.

I use this procedure on every panel and it seems to work for me.

Thanks Chris for taking interest and posting your results.Those bowls really came out nice.After you get this project done,take a pattern off of something and try to re-produce it,using the same method.
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Old 06-07-2009, 02:21 PM
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THANK YOU JOHNNY for posting a great explanation to the fsp. I think it is the best one i have read very simple and clear easy to understand ( i think that i have read every one over on the mm site) . A halleluja moment the concept has finally click in my head, I guess thats probably because it's on a simple shape. Looks can be desceptive the two bowls are quite different shape's . I think i will have a go at two more this time working the first one to a contour gage then the second to a fsp, will post my results when done but could be a couple of weeks as i'm going to be flat out at work this week and have a few things to do with the family this week as well.

Please someone else out there have a go and post your results so that we can all learn some more , my bowls aint that good remember cameras lie they make things look better than they are. Lets make this site a great resource for all metal shapers however good/bad or long they have been doing it! Knowledge is a very powerful tool and in this modern age metalshaping is one skill that we as a people should do everything in our power to keep alive .

And finally a huge thankyou to Johnny and all who share this priceless knowledge, sorry for the little of topic rant but it amazes me the willingness of people to share,
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Old 06-07-2009, 04:18 PM
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Chris

I wouldn't shape two more your almost there right now.

Unless you just want the practice.

In and out of arrangement is one of the toughest things to learn about metal shaping,it is also the most important thing to learn.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So take your good one make a pattern off of it and a contour gauge.Then just consider the other one a roughed in piece.Chase that one to the pattern until it fits the pattern.Only then when the panel fits the pattern will you need the contour gauge.

When I make a pattern now I don't make a contour gauge until after I get the panel fitting the pattern.This way I don't use it until I need it.

Never use the contour gauge until the panel fits the pattern.

Steve Hamilton gave me my ah ha moment.As soon as I figured out in and out of arrangement it all started to make sense.

Steve if you read this I would love to have your in and out of arrangement thread here on this site.It is some of the best sheet metal shaping information that I have ever read.

Chris I really want you to get this so if you have any questions please ask.If I can not answer it I will find someone that can.
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Old 06-08-2009, 12:40 PM
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Thanks for the advice Johnny I think i'm going to have a play and get the better bowl better and then i'll take the fsp of it and have a go at getting the other to match. I think i've just about got a handle on the arrangement thing . Made a small fender a couple of weeks ago that i poated over on mm found forceing the ends together flattend out the short rad and made it a lot easier to run through the wheel pull the ends apart and i got the short rad back,But if steve can give a good explanation and is will to that would be great.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:44 PM
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Ok so had a hard day at the office so to speak so i decided to hit some metal instead of the bottle . Spent a bit more time on the better bowl alot happier with it so i decided to have a go at making a pattern.

first layer of tape


don't have any packing tape so thought that i would try gaffer tape.

put two layers on then pulled it all of the bowl


Dont think the tape is up to the job as it stretched a bit at the edge of the pattern as i pulled it of but then this is a learning curve.but it is good enought to give me an idea of what i need to do. fsp dropped on second bowl



As you can see the second bowl is quite a bit different to the first, I'm guessing that i've got to shrink the outer portion abit then stretch it out from the middle? any thoughts?
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:48 PM
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Shrink the edge a little more then just stretch the rest to the pattern.

This is just for practice,were just trying to get it to fit the pattern.

Next time you make a flex pattern lay the tape in rows.Do an 1/8'' over lay with the low stick tape.Then cover 1/2 of the thickness of the packing tape on each layer.

This will leave you a road map on what needs to be done with the panel.


If you look at this picture,you can see where the radius starts(marked with pen)It is right where right where the tape starts to over lap.The over lap is also telling you that the panel will need to be shrunk right there.

20080828_19.JPG

So lay it down as flat as you can but let the tape go where it wants to go.That is where all of the information is.As hard as this is we will take whatever advantage we can get.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:27 PM
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Lookin good. Great thread!
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