Track style nose

[german8rcoupe]

Hi all, some useful info posted to be getting on with thanks.
Richard, your pics always speak to me better than an explanation of hundreds of words.

Johnny, the plan was to make the side and bottom so that it flowed and then try making a flex pattern from the finished side to make the other side, but flipped of course. This is something else I haven't done that I need to practise.
Your observations are spot on apart from the bump that you have coloured red. Not sure if it's a reflection in that pic but if you look at the other pics that area is curved in quite nicely.
I got more time today and decided to do the bottom part.
I made a very basic cardboard template and transferred it to the ally and cut it out.



Looking inside I could see what needed shape and what needed to stay flat.(I think?)



I,m trying to put the shape in to allow for splitting at the tangent of a radius for welding. Is that the best option or should a flat area be chosen instead?

Some mallet and bag work...



...which seemed to do the trick....





This is where things got tricky for me. Firstly, I did the same as the other night and put way too much shape in it whilst smoothing things out.
I,m using a real loose set up to smooth it and then tightening up the anvils to planish. Maybe I,m just getting ahead of myself.
Then some customers came in to discuss some work and once they left I had lost where I was.
Anyway, long story short, the overstretching and the obviously massive shrink that was going to be needed at the "chin" area,scared me enough that I cut the panel in half.
I set about the other half and got it quite close to where I was happy.



Then I started trying to shrink that chin area in. Mainly on the stump and then wheeling out the lumps.

Still got some way to go here.......



.....left it at this as hunger kicked in and I headed home......



Working on the truck tomorrow so lots to think about before I get back into it.

[(notch)]

ok not trying to hi-jack this build post but i have a question. regarding a flexible shape pattern (ive never made one personally) could you in theory make half a buck, just say side profile view, shape the panel to fit, pull a shape pattern and make the complete track nose that way?

this is a great project that i will pay close attention to. great work ross.

[David Gardiner]

Sorry Ross if this is a hijack, Jason that is what I said could be done in my earlier post. I simply work by eye or use a few profile gauges to ensure that both sides are symmetrical.
(end of hijack)

[jhnarial]

David if it has to be a exact match,like your beautiful radiator shells.

You make a simple buck and take contour gauges of what you are trying to re-produce? Then what do you shape to the contour gauges?

I was taught to get your shape first and don't worry about the contour gauges until you do so. Then use the contour gauges when you have the correct amount of shape and then use the contour gauges to put the panel into it's proper arrangement.

I know I am always question you after every post you make,it's because I respect your work and I am trying to get a understanding on how you are doing it.

[Kerry Pinkerton]

Originally Posted by (notch)

...could you in theory make half a buck, just say side profile view, shape the panel to fit, pull a shape pattern and make the complete track nose that way?...

I believe it's possible...BUT

I think it's a function of your skills and the complexity of the panel. What you describe is EXACTLY how I was going to build my roadster. What I found was that I simply needed more information than the flexible shape pattern provided. Specifically, I needed some arrangement info. On smaller panels, it's easier...at least for me.

[David Gardiner]

Originally Posted by jhnarial

David if it has to be a exact match,like your beautiful radiator shells.

You make a simple buck and take contour gauges of what you are trying to re-produce? Then what do you shape to the contour gauges?

I was taught to get your shape first and don't worry about the contour gauges until you do so. Then use the contour gauges when you have the correct amount of shape and then use the contour gauges to put the panel into it's proper arrangement.

I know I am always question you after every post you make,it's because I respect your work and I am trying to get a understanding on how you are doing it.

I do things a little differently, I keep the panel in arrangement at all times so I can see what the actual shape is. The Buck for the rad shells gives me all the info I need. I don't think it matters how you do it I just think that for some panels a lot of work can be avoided by keeping things simple, I basically do the same processes no matter what I am making.

Kerry For your body I agree you needed as much info as possible to create it and keep it all symmetrical. You may remember me saying to you a while back that you would have had less problems if you had built a half buck.

It really does depend on what you are making how much of a buck or pattern you need. Only experience tells you what you need. I get it wrong sometimes and find I have bitten off more than I can chew and wish I had made a buck. For the rear wings of the BMW we built recently I made one side wing freehand then James made a fairly simple buck from this to make the other side.

I have never said that there was anything wrong with a FSP I have only said that I can't see that you need one if you have the original panel that you are recreating in front of you but if it helps that is fine. I think it is probably a bit like using arm bands when you first learn to swim or stabilizers when learning to ride a bike. ( I hope that doesn't sound insulting it is not intended to.)

[Barry]

Nose is looking good Ross

Originally Posted by german8rcoupe

.............. I did those in the stump but in doing so put the large humps in the blue areas which I then had to try and work out.
Maybe I am hitting too hard in the stump?
How do you shrink deep into a panel(4-5") with a stump as opposed to edge shrinking?

This remains the biggest issue to me in shaping Ross. I have thumbnails in the Nibbler, tucking forks, and a couple of stumps. All of these methods result in bulges forming inboard of the shrink area. The bulging is however not always to the same degree - sometimes a lot less than others. This leads me to believe that a lot of it IS down to technique, however I don't spend enough time shaping ( and often don't concentrate on observing enough when I do) to get it figured out.
On the stump I believe it is a factor of both mallet shape (& size) as well as direction of hit that forms a tuck with the least amount of stretch from the blow. How mangled and "tight" the panel is at the point play a roll too in resisting a tuck forming. The deformation will always happen in the direction of least resistance, so regular washing out of lumps during the process may also help. I wish I had a better answer: "do it exactly like this and it will work every time", but I think the real answer is: "do it a bunch more times and all will be revealed!"

I have a round post like Richard described and again have had varying success with it - once again my technique, not a problem with the process. You can also shrink and area of too much crown by one sharp rap popping a "bubble" back to the other side, turning the panel over and working this into itself in diminishing circles. My experience is both of these methods work to a point of medium crown, below which I can't seem to get it to shrink - after that there's always heat I guess....

Barry

[David Gardiner]

Hi Ross I see the problem you are having, you need to blend out with your blows, don't form so hard so far in if that makes sense. Try to make the shape you want and just smooth out with the wheel. But like Barry said it really is a matter of practice. I learned more from doing batch work than from one offs. It gives you the chance to do the same shape in different ways and see what the result is.

[german8rcoupe]

Brief update as I managed to get some time on it at the weekend.
I made the other side by purely wheeling alone, no hammer work.
It had a nice flow to it but less shape than the other side.
I did break out the hammers to shrink a bit at the grill opening though.



You will also see that i was getting frustrated by the clamps getting in the way so once the panels were close I screwed them to the buck.
This let me trim almost to a line and only cleco the fronts together to see how it flowed. Fit up seems good inside.



I only have another corner to do and then I,ll see abouit welding it. If I try and do it with gas now, it will end up scrap as I really need to get better before I take this on. AC on the tig is still not available to me either. Where they join, the panels are sort of "kissing" each other and are slightly proud. I figure this may help when welded that they will shrink to nearer where I want them to be...or is that just wishful thinking?!



I placed the grill back in just to remind me of where I was originally heading.......



I,m pretty happy with how it's panning out so far considering it's my first time back on a wheel in 8 years.

[hlfuzzball]

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