All MetalShaping

Go Back   All MetalShaping > General Metal Shaping Discussion > Basic questions and answers
  Today's Posts Posts for Last 7 Days Posts for Last 14 Days  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 03-13-2010, 12:11 PM
Gleeser's Avatar
Gleeser Gleeser is offline
Metalshaper of the Month, May 2010
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: North Missouri
Posts: 350
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerry Pinkerton View Post
...but I'm not sure it is faster than someone who has mastered tuck or stump shrinking.
I'm sure it's not. A sharpie line on the material on the inside of the jaws showed me just how effective it was. You hit the tuck and watch the line disappear under the vise grip jaws.
__________________
Grant


Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-13-2010, 02:18 PM
Jerry Jackson Jerry Jackson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 82
Default

If the goal is to make money off of an idea then asking "How can I protect my idea so I can make a modest living?" is not the most productive viewpoint because it implies that "protection" is the most important issue. That is not true. The most important issue is getting people to buy the product and then to maintain a competitive edge by continuously improving function, price, distribution, and advertising. THAT is what generates profit, not just owning a patent or keeping details secret.

One famous example that compares "protection" versus "aggressive sales"
is Apple versus Microsoft. Apple kept their operating system closed so no one could copy/modify it. Microsoft opened up their system so other vendors could devolope new applications (that fostered increased sales of the Microsoft software). Both are successful but MS has made Bill Gates one of the worlds richest men.

Jerry Jackson
San Antonio
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-13-2010, 02:55 PM
tdoty's Avatar
tdoty tdoty is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Winchester, TN
Posts: 1,327
Default

Yes, but underhanded dealings are part of the Bill Gates story too. Remember, he was part of Apple too. Jobs learned to keep things secret after Bill did his thing. Microsoft could even be accused of being the Harbor Freight of software.

A better analogy would be VHS versus Beta. Beta offered better quality in pretty much every way, but the licensing costs were steep. The VHS folks put the technology out there for a pittance and eventually became the standard.


Tim D.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-13-2010, 04:25 PM
Einar_S Einar_S is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Follo, Norway
Posts: 179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.c View Post
Now I will have some sales at Sun-n-Fun because that is what we use for training.
No doubt you will. I made my own, for my private use only.
I would have bought yours if I met you as at your price making it is hardly worth it. But when adding international freight cost they end up costing several times of what you get.

Bring them to Metal Meets, let people try them and I'm sure you will sell a couple to everyone that actually does some metalshaping. I don't know why, but your idea works much better than the stump. Maybe the slick surface? Often I can't see any tucks but it shrinks anyway!
__________________
Akershus (Follo) Norway. Einar (at-sign) sjaavik (dot) no.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-13-2010, 09:10 PM
mr.c's Avatar
mr.c mr.c is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: N. Florida
Posts: 698
Default

Einar: I have been making them for almost 3 years now and I still get a big grin when I see those tucks pop up. I hated tucking forks and that whole process. When trying to teach that process, I could see a good percentage of the student's eyes sort of go blank. A lot of them just couldn't grasp the concept. My first sale was a repeat "customer" at the Metalshapers Workshop. He was grinning as much as I was when he saw those tucks pop up. At that point I hadn't decided to market them.
I have sent these things all over the planet. I ship in the smallest flat rate box and International shipping was $11 but has increased a couple of bucks in the last year. Still under $13 to ship 2 of them. Do they nail you for more money at customs? I fill out a customs declaration when I ship them.

Last edited by mr.c; 03-13-2010 at 09:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-13-2010, 11:05 PM
BashingTin BashingTin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 59
Default

OK, seeings how this thing is slowly drifting off topic, the topic of metal shaping....

My two pennies. Sorry if what I'm about to say seems a little negative. In no way am I trying to discourage you.

Patents are very expensive, don't kid yourself. Figure $20,000 to $25,000 for the first round, and then maintenance fees in the tens of thousands for years to come if you want to keep it. If you have something worth patenting, it better be something that a LOT of people want.

Patents DO NOT afford you any protection from theft. If a company with a small army of layers wants your idea, they will simply take it. It's still up to you to fully fund your defense in the event someone infringes on your patent. The government or your little piece of paper that says you have patented your idea will not. If you are small, they can easily pummel you into financial oblivion before you will ever win.

The only people that I have personally met that are rich today from owning some form of intellectual property, are the ones that also produced the product in it's early life span. They became financially successful, long before anyone tried to take it. Then they where able to fund a serious defense on infringement. Hence, patents generally only protect the rich.

My advice, don't let a good idea you have stop you from having fun with it. If after you build a functional prototype, and you're convinced it's a winner, seek the advice from the richest friend you know. If you plan on producing your idea in it's early life cycle, you will need a financially liquid partner. This will be someone you will help get richer in exchange for the power that they can bring to the table. Their power is not just being able to throw money at the endeavor, but the experience of how to make it.

And most importantly, if money is your soul goal here in this endeavor, then you are already in trouble.

David
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-13-2010, 11:28 PM
Charley Davidson Charley Davidson is offline
Spectator
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville/Murfreesburo
Posts: 57
Default

Money is not my "Sole purpose' in any endeavor. If this turns out to be of significant value to the metal shaping industry that would be cool but I don't expect it to be the latest greatest must have bread slicer out there.

Just an idea that I think has some potential and could get me ahead in the metal shaping tool & equipment department for setting up my shop. I'll play around with making a rough working model to test my idea then if it seems promising I'll further pursue it if not I'll fill you all in on my stupid idea.

I don't want to present myself as selfish or just looking to make a buck off of this group but I'm coming to an end of a 15 year career as a comic/entertainer with nothing much to show for it and starting a new adventure so I need to fund this some how.

Not really interested in patents, lawyers or get rich quick schemes. Just want to eat,pay my bills and build my new grandson some cool stuff in hopes he'll be interested in this craft.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-14-2010, 12:38 AM
tdoty's Avatar
tdoty tdoty is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Winchester, TN
Posts: 1,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley Davidson View Post
Just want to eat,pay my bills and build my new grandson some cool stuff in hopes he'll be interested in this craft.
Sounds like a noble goal indeed, sir!

Tim D.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-14-2010, 02:35 AM
John Buchtenkirch John Buchtenkirch is offline
MetalShaper of the Month October 2012
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Glen Cove, Long Island
Posts: 1,675
Default

Not really interested in patents, lawyers or get rich quick schemes. Just want to eat,pay my bills and build my new grandson some cool stuff in hopes he'll be interested in this craft.


I don’t have a grandson but if I did I wouldn’t show him this craft / trade till he was well established in another profession because the truth be known this is a easy craft to fall in love with but a tuff trade to make good money in . I for one certainly would have more $$$ now if I had stayed in the collision trade. In 3 different occasions I have seen guys trying to sell out all their equipment on Craigslist because they finally realized there are more lucrative ways to make money.

Thanks to the bike & hot rod build shows on TV a lot of impressionable young people think this is a cool way to get rich or to at least make a good living, well I wish them luck but feel many will be disappointed in the end. I still love the creativity but don’t know if I could recommend it to someone who had the responsibility of paying family bills. ~ John Buchtenkirch

Last edited by John Buchtenkirch; 03-14-2010 at 02:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-14-2010, 07:58 AM
Joe Hartson's Avatar
Joe Hartson Joe Hartson is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pass Christian, MS
Posts: 4,981
Default

John, very well said, I agree completely. It was probably easier to make a living in this trade 50 or 60 years ago if you could find someone to teach you.
__________________
Joe Hartson

There is more than one way to go to town and they are all correct.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.